cops law enforcement special needs students entrapment
Ending Marijuana Prohibition

Florida Cops Sell Man Drugs In Sting, Then Kill Him

cops law enforcement floridaBy Phillip Smith

Police conducting an undercover, street-level, reverse drug sting in Putnam County, Florida, shot and killed one of their targets Friday night as he attempted to drive away from the scene. Andrew Anthony Williams, a 48-year-old black man, becomes the 11th person to die in US domestic drug law enforcement operations so far this year.

According to local press accounts, all relying on law enforcement sources, deputies and detectives from the Putnam County Sheriff’s Office were conducting a “reverse sting” where they posed as drug dealers, sold unwary customers small amounts of drugs, and then arrested them.

Deputies had successfully sold drugs to and arrested 10 people, but when they identified themselves and tried to arrest Williams, who was number 11, he declined. “[H]e drove away quickly and hit a tree,” the St. Augustine Record reported.  ”The man next backed up toward the deputies, then put the vehicle into drive and turned toward some of them, the Sheriff’s Office said. Four deputies fired at the oncoming vehicle almost simultaneously, the Sheriff’s Office said.”

News 4 Jax had it this way: “…when they tried to arrest Williams, he took off in a blue SUV and, swerving to avoid deputies, ran into a tree. Williams then backed up and tried to take off again toward deputies causing four of them to open fire on Williams SUV, hitting him an unknown number of times.”

Williams was taken to a local hospital, where he was pronounced dead. One deputy was wounded in the gunfire, but that bullet came from another deputy’s gun, according to the Sheriff’s Office. (In the headline for its story about the incident, News 4 Jax neglected to mention that anyone had been killed, going with “Putnam County deputy hit by bullet fired at suspect.”)

The Sheriff’s Office did not identify the four deputies involved in the shooting, but was quick to make available Williams’ criminal history, which including charges for drugs, fleeing, eluding, resisting arrest, and battery on a law enforcement officer.

The four deputies are on paid administrative leave.

This killing should raise a few questions, both about the nature of the operation itself and about what actually occurred.

Reverse drug stings are a controversial tactic, sometimes arguably justifiable at the higher echelons of the drug trade, where selling sizeable quantities of drugs to a player to see where they go help crack a drug ring, but that logic isn’t at work here, where the only result is to round up some street drug buyers and drag them into the criminal justice system. Is having deputies pretend to be drug dealers to bust small-time users really the county’s best use of its law enforcement resources?

And then there’s the no-witness “he was going to run me over” defense used by the police to justify the killing. It happens not infrequently. Williams may have decided that getting busted on a minor dope charge was worth trying to murder a group of police officers with his vehicle. But could it have been that he was just trying to get away?

It’ll be up to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, which investigates officer-involved killings, to get to the bottom of it.

Article From StoptheDrugWar.orgCreative Commons LicensingDonate

  • Jo Johns

    Why is it that when cops shoot and kill an unarmed white man the media doesn’t mention his race, but every time they shoot a black man the media wants to make sure you know that he was a black man?

    • Briar Rabbitt

      Yeah that’s a question I been asking for 40 years?

      • Hey

        Andy is my cousin, who did nothing wrong. Please show some respect.

        • Briar Rabbitt

          YEAH AND??? Dont bother trolling me prick…………………………..

    • Because the Drug War is racist?

      “Look, we understood we couldn’t make it illegal to be young or poor or black in the United States, but we could criminalize their common pleasure. We understood that drugs were not the health problem we were making them out to be, but it was such a perfect issue…that we couldn’t resist it.” – John Ehrlichman, White House counsel to President Nixon on the rationale of the War on Drugs.

  • WMC

    The concept of small time drug stings makes me sick. The amount of tax payer dollars spent on these stings is not at all worth the end result. Just watch these Florida cops at work doing their little drug stings on the television show ‘Cops’. You have at least 4 or 5 cops and 2 or 3 vehicles involved in these operations, just to arrest some hapless person trying to buy a nickel bag of weed that the cops are trying to sell them. Then there are the court costs and the costs to feed and house the offender in jail. After all that, the arrestee is back on the street 24 hours later and not one bit ‘cured’ of his or her desire to but another nickel bag of weed. So exactly what did the cops or the taxpayers really gain from this exercise in futility other than giving another person a criminal record?

    • David

      In this case the cops can’t even justify their actions by saying “we took drugs off the street” Because, they PUT these drugs on the street.

    • Bo Bobson

      Best post ever! Co sign on that.

    • jarmstead

      WMC – you’ve pretty much summed up the entire story and futility of this LE tactic.

  • David

    Police love drug laws, investigating real crime would require them to actually put in some work. In this case the cops actually COMMITTED the crime of Distribution of Narcotics,
    then busted their customers. This allowed them to make several felony arrests without doing ANY investigations. And even the cartels avoid killing their own customers.

  • Randy

    I am all for cops making it home to their families at the end of the day. One of the many problems I have with this is that I have watched so many shows from the series “COPS” and almost every time when a suspect tries to flee in a vehicle and they have to drive by a cop. The cop will almost always claim that the suspect tried to hit them even when it was clear on the video that it wasn’t the case.

    • john

      im for following cops to there homes and giving them a taste of a pre dawn raid. you know, smash their wives faces to the floor, shoot a family pet or two, break some stuff, take the money out of the house, you know, eye for an eye since all is fair in war.

      • Randy

        All cops aren’t bad and the whole system isn’t bad but I understand your frustration

  • And there is always:

    “I feared for my life”
    “Furtive movement”
    “Reached for his waist band”
    “Refused to follow orders”

    • David

      He was fleeing from armed criminals. Even if he had hit one of them it would have been self- defense.

  • David

    These cops should all be arrested for Distribution of Narcotics, Conspiracy, Using a Firearm in the Commission of a Felony, and Murder. Police are not above the law.

    • Valient

      You would think that people in power should be held to higher standards than the common citizen. Those enforcing the laws should be treated with the highest penalties, but instead are near immune to them.

  • David

    When cops run a prostitution sting, they don’t actually COMMIT prostitution; they merely suggest the possibility of sex. These cops clearly violated the law. And when you kill someone in the course of committing a crime, it’s murder.

    • Jordan Shorette

      if i was that mans family i would sue every cop there and their wives/husbands for murder, there is no other way to define what took place

      • Hey

        This man, Andy, is my cousin. My family and I are trying to still figure out this whole thing because there are still many missing peices to this puzzle.

  • Dave Period

    The article is correct about this reverse sting crap. It just makes the cops look like snakes (seems to be the standard for law enforcement nowadays). Their sole purpose was to go out and try to make somebody break the law, and then arrest them for it, so what is the purpose? Interestingly enough, maybe if I ask it like this: Cops are trying to trick people into buying drugs, yet not trying to trick people into murdering/stealing from people, so doesn’t this just make it look like a money farming scheme? Go to jail for a short period of time, prey off their common vice again. Snake. Then they HAD to shoot the guy, no other options…yeah sure…makes sense.

  • Jordan Shorette

    this is ridiculous on all levels they also have legs to go along with those firearms if the guy had to back up then go forward that means he had to make a dead stop plenty of time to move out of the way not open fire bc he might get away. what the hell is wrong with these cops

  • Andrew

    I don’t understand why this isn’t entrapment?

    • Valient

      This is in relation to a prostitution sting, but it applies.-

      “Unfortunately, many courts have found that these types of law enforcement sting operations are not entrapment because courts have decided that the defendant’s willingness to contact the service providers, which is the law enforcement officer, and then arrive at the location constitute a manifestation of the defendant’s pre-existing intent or willingness to engage in the prohibited conduct.”

      I’m not sure how this sting was done. If the officers approached the people and asked if they wanted to buy drugs, it is 100% entrapment.

      As far as prostitution, if they ask for money without you mentioning it, it’s entrapment. But chances are if you’re smart to that and call out the officer, you’ll have violently resisted arrest/assaulted an officer and also face imminent death.

      • David

        Have you ever heard of a case where the police officer actually HAD sex for money and then busted the john? That’s the legal equivalent of what these officers did.

        • Valient

          If the officer offers the drugs or sex first, it’s entrapment.

          Otherwise, it’s all about the money. The sex doesn’t need to be had, the money doesn’t need to exchange hands. All it takes is a verbal or written agreement. If the officer is stupid enough to have sex with you without requesting the money, and you don’t mention it, you win. However, if they’re actually a prostitute and you walk out without paying, you may wish you had.

          However, it’s unclear from the article whether they actively advertised/asked people if they wanted stuff, or stood in areas frequented by dealers and waited for people to ask them.

          It’s still going to be a case of officer testimony vs “criminal” testimony, and sadly judges tend to side with the people who are providing them with a constant revenue stream.

          • David

            These cops didn’t offer to sell drugs, they SOLD drugs. They sold drugs and then busted the buyers for possession.

  • Vort

    Cops have nothing better to do than set up poor people and bust them for a nickel bag of weed? If they have no other serious crime to fill their work day then they should be laid off. Fact is, there are serious crimes taking place somewhere in the vicinity of their little sting operation, but they are too busy trying to put someone in jail for a nickel bag to stop the smash and grabs, car jackings or armed robberies happening down the street.

  • Bo Bobson

    And the police wonder why so many people distrust or hate them. These penny-ante drug stings only reinforce the public’s distrust of the police. So what the police are actually doing is if you are not currently in the process of committing a crime, we’ll help you out and get you involved in a crime and then arrest or kill you in the process.

  • ScootchP

    He obviously was no high time drug dealer. If he had to buy off the streets, he didn’t even have felony amounts at time of arrest. Why waste tax payer dollars on this? Four policemen for a low end drug bust? This screams bull-shit. Let’s pay 4 cops salary to get just over 10 people arrested overnight at most. Makes sense.

    From a business standpoint that’s stupid. But jails shouldn’t be run from a business standpoint… Oh wait, we’re in America where prisons are for profit. Nevermind my whole rant.

  • Sinclair

    This is a pathetic use of police time How many violent crimes happened while they was killing this person. It was just pot.

    • stellarvoyager

      At least one violent crime: killing this person.

  • Cyndysub

    This makes my Fangs and Claws tingle.

  • Robert

    Apparently some cops were just shot in Ferguson. Watching my brethren kill each other brings me to tears, but when incidents like this keep piling on, how on earth can I say that they’re wrong?

    If there’s any officers reading this, connect these two stories and please do the math. Now.

    • David

      It isn’t just the dramatic, violent cases like this one that cause Americans to dislike the police, I’ve had a lifetime of bad experiences with cops.
      The police work for us, and we need to fire most of them and rehire with a completely different set of requirements.

      • Jordan Shorette

        you are very right about that

  • Doc Deadhead

    Why is it that when 11 people die from faulty airbags the Government steps in and turns the company upside-down and fines the shit out of them and makes them compensate everyone involved but………. when out of control cops kill 11 non-violent people doing non-violent crimes nothing is said or done about it?

    • shata971

      i dont agree whit the “non-violent people” and the “non-violent crimes”

      • john

        sold pot for 10 plus years and never held a gun. ever. and to my knowledge that is the norm… why use a gun when it only leads to hurting yourself and others… oh wait, because you want to be a cop.

      • LEARNtheTRUTH

        Drug use is inherently non violent.

  • PISSED OFF

    This is just another example of DIRTY COPS in Florida and the only why to get rid of them is to give them the same treatment as they do to the victims!!! Since they think they are above the law than they need to have the worst happen to them. Like I have said before, “In GOD We Trust” but not the cops in Florida….

  • Hey

    This man is my cousin & my family and I are still trying to figure out the missing peices to this puzzle. Andy does not own a car, every news story is saying the car belonged to him. It took them 13 hours to notify my family, & when they did, they first went to the wrong family thinking they killed another man (the one who the car belonged to). Sadly there were no witnesses but we are trying to get the answers & respect that we need. As the story mentions, the news didn’t even mention Andy’s name, or the fact that he was dead. Only on the deputy’s condition. That’s not even fair.

    • David

      I am sorry for your loss, this should never happen to anyone in this country. The police should never sell drugs or commit any felonies in order to make arrests. And the shooting was completely unjustified. How far could he have even gotten after hitting a tree? These criminal police officers need to be held accountable.

    • Rob Trent

      Point 1. “we are trying to get the answers & respect that we need. As the story mentions, the news didn’t even mention Andy’s name, or the fact that he was dead.”

      They didn’t mention his name because like you said… It took them 13 hours to find and notify his family. You are crying for respect, but the police gave you the respect when they didn’t let the world know he was dead before letting the family know. The police could have disrespected you and let the family find out he was dead on the news.

      Point 2. “Andy does not own a car”

      Did he steal or borrow the blue SUV that he was driving then?

      What kind of previous criminal record did Andy have? How many previous run ins with the law did he have? I’ll answer that for you. Andy had previous charges for drugs, fleeing, eluding, resisting arrest, and battery on a law enforcement officer.
      Andy was no angel.

      • HellNo

        NONE of us are “angels”. And for you to be justifying this brutality, to his family, that’s low.
        You’re a cop, aren’t you?

        • Rob Trent

          “You’re a cop, aren’t you?”
          Are you telling me or asking me?

          • john

            he told you.

          • Rob Trent

            Guess you don’t know what a question mark means…
            Punctuation mark (?) indicating a question.
            useUsed to express doubt or uncertainty about something.

          • Nominalis

            So other than being ecstatically happy that the cops shot someone that you’ve judged as lesser than human, you have nothing in your bag of hot air other than an ambush punctuation lesson. Go back to your toy box Ron!?%#&!?

          • Rob Trent

            “Go back to your toy box Ron!”
            Learn how to read. The name is ROB.

          • Nominalis

            Punctuation AND typos! Is there anything you won’t police, Roy? You got the binoculars on your neighbours windows too?

          • chucky357

            perfect name for a cop.

      • Shata971

        even if he was no angel thats not the point what happened should not happpen to someone buying weed yoo (they just lazy and soft always looking for the easyiest catch of the day) bastardzz*

      • Rob Trent

        For those who are slow on the uptake….

        ” Andy had previous charges for drugs, fleeing, eluding, resisting arrest, and battery on a law enforcement officer.”
        Seems Andy had a criminal past that fits with what the cops are saying what happened. If Andy had no criminal past, I would look at the cops a little harder. But it looks like this is a pattern of behavior for Andy. Eluding, resisting and battery on a law enforcement officer. Sounds like a righteous shooting to me.

        • john

          you can tell that to Christ as he drops you off in hell.

          • Rob Trent

            I’ll say hi to your mom when I get there.

        • Nominalis

          Criminal record or not the police aren’t judge, jury and executioner. By your standard of a “righteous” shooting, whatever that means, the police could summarily execute anyone over a traffic violation. And to harass the family of a shooting victim online is as low as a coward could get. Go back to playing with yourself Rob, these big boy topics elude you.

          • Rob Trent

            “By your standard of a “righteous” shooting, whatever that means, the police could summarily execute anyone over a traffic violation.”
            Now you are just acting stupid! Get educated.

          • LEARNtheTRUTH

            You are embarrassing yourself. It is better to remain silent and let
            everyone think you a fool, than to open your mouth and confirm it. Do not
            tell others to “get educated” when you clearly do not have any
            understanding of ethics, morality, justice or the current mechanisms and
            rhetoric via which “Drug Enforcement” is handled. Do some reading about
            drug harm versus actual prohibition laws and perhaps read The United
            Nations Global Convention on Drug Policy, where individuals who are in
            fact PhD holding authors, with degrees in psychology, social policy, and
            neuroscience comment on, and vigorously condemn the failure of the drug
            war, as well as the unrelenting harm it causes to otherwise ethical
            individuals. People who are significantly more educated than you
            maintain this not as an opinion, but as a provable and demonstrable fact
            using statistics and science. If you observe unbiased statistics, there
            is simply only one conclusion:

            That we are waging a war on a mental health disorder. Because of the stigma associated with mental
            health disorder in this country, it is accepted and even applauded by some of
            the most uninformed and bigoted individuals. Drug abuse is a mental
            health disorder which consists of compulsive behaviors that have
            diminishing returns, in which the individuals continue to follow these
            patterns of use, despite negative side effects. The ability to stop is
            often not possible because drugs are very commonly used by individuals
            to self medicate already existing mental health disorders, whether it be
            depression, anxiety, or even just the vicious cycle of withdrawal
            itself.The fact of the matter is that mental health disorders are very
            much a real thing, and to persecute individuals for having mental health
            disorders is much akin to prosecuting someone because they have cancer.
            The number of factors that contribute to both cancer and drug abuse is
            staggering, and to say that either should be criminal is simply
            incorrect, uninformed, and otherwise preposterous to anyone who has an
            appreciable understanding about these issues.

            President Richard Nixon was elected on a “Lets get tough on Drugs campaign” which perfectly
            coincided with the hippie counterculture movement and gave
            authoritarian individuals the “right” to arrest individuals for
            otherwise completely harmless actions, such as using drugs. If you think LSD is actually
            harmful, then you really need to read some scientific literature.
            Physiologically, LSD is the safest drug on the planet, perhaps besides
            psilocybin, the active compound of many hallucinogenic mushrooms. Why
            then, would it be illegal? If you don’t understand, re-read the first
            sentence of this paragraph. If you still don’t believe me, read the
            recent Norwegian study which found that “In general, use of psychedelics
            does not appear to be particularly dangerous when compared to other activities considered to have
            acceptable safety.”

            Read more: http://www.upi.com/Science_News/2015/03/08/Psychedelic-drugs-not-linked-to-mental-health-problems/6941425853359/#ixzz3UIwxF2mx

            While psychedelics have considerably less harm than say, crack cocaine, in
            fact they are scheduled by our government in the same way, obviously
            reinforcing the fact that drugs are not regulated based on their actual
            observable harm, but instead by stigma, the media, and the idea of
            social control. In the intellectual community (and yes, I am qualified by my degree to
            make this statement), we differentiate between drugs based on whether or
            not it is an “addictive medicine” such as cocaine, heroin, marijuana,
            alcohol, tobacco, ketamine and the like, or a “dependence free medicine”
            such as LSD, psilocybin, mescaline, MDMA and such related compounds.
            As you have read above the dependence free medicines have been
            consistently demonstrated to have an absolutely safe level of use, and
            quite a bit of true medicinal potential, such as curing alcoholism or
            PTSD. Thus, to say that using psychedelics is a mental health disorder
            is likely to be incorrect. They should simply be regarded medicinally.
            Why is it then, that we keep them illegal? It is simply impossible to
            argue, given the state of the science, that it is for public safety.

            Medicines (and yes, ALL drugs are medicines) that have the potential to induce
            dependence (addictive medicines) would qualify an individual to have a
            mental health disorder in and of itself, and very likely independent of
            the drug use. For example, the vast majority of individuals who smoke
            marijuana (Cannabis, as it should be called to avoid racial slander) on a
            daily basis generally report that they feel either depressed mood or
            anxiety. Thus they might have depression and or an anxiety disorder
            (neurologically they are extremely difficult to tease apart) that they
            are self medicating and which could, and should be treated via a more
            effective mechanism, if one is available. Often, one is not. Cannabis is
            not a great example because it indeed has many medicinal effects, and
            treats many types of illness both physical and mental, often far better
            than the medications manufactured by pharmaceutical companies. This
            being said, its use can certainly have negative consequences, regardless
            of its legal status.

            A better example would be akin to an individual who uses crack or powder cocaine to treat their depression.
            This is likely to be an ineffective treatment mechanism, owing to the
            bodies ability to build tolerance in terms of behavior, pharmacodynamics
            and pharmacokinetics. Cocaine, while it does produce intense euphoria,
            (the antithesis of depression) is also extremely habit forming
            psychologically, and can lead to an array of health problems. In this
            instance, the individual should seek medical assistance to better treat
            whatever disorder (physical or mental) it is that causes them to use
            powder cocaine or crack. In this way, prohibition and criminalization is
            simply not an effective mechanism as it creates an unfriendly, hostile,
            stigmatized and uninformed environment for them to seek that help.

            Anyone who has an actual grasp on reality, reason, and logic can understand
            this. It is simply not debatable and any debate is a complete waste of
            time. It has already been proven. If you don’t understand, you should
            probably “get educated” yourself, by doing some reading of unbiased,
            scientifically informed studies, like the one I mentioned earlier,
            published by the United Nations.

            Furthermore, regardless of this persons past, they should not have been shot. That is wrong, and the
            officers who executed him should be in prison, just like any other
            person would be if they had shot this man.
            The police are a gang. Unfortunately, they are not out for public defense, nor are they out to
            help anyone. If they truly wanted to help people, they would either join
            the Peace Core, or practice medicine. Anyone who seeks to place his or
            her self above the law and above others is likely to have an authority
            complex and in the interest of justice and peace, should not be allowed
            to do so. This is too idealistic, however, for the current state of
            global consciousness.

            Assuming law enforcement will exist for some
            time, if they were actually interested in helping the public, this type of
            “operation” would be ridiculed, laughed at, and then dismissed as lunacy. The police are simply a legal, government approved gang that does not have to answer for their crimes. It is
            rather amusing, in a sick and perverted sort of way, that many of the
            least educated, and most bigoted individuals have the greatest power
            over the public domain.

            Finally, countries such as Portugal, which have legalized all drugs for personal
            use, are actually experiencing an incredible drop in the rates of drug
            use, as well as drug associated crimes. Correlation does not prove
            causation, obviously, but it makes perfectly logical sense; because the
            stigma and fear are gone, people can seek help, and find more effective
            ways to feel comfortable on the oh so fear ridden planet we live on.
            Marginalizing these individuals, as we do by making them criminals, only
            exacerbates the problem.

            If you really cannot grasp what I am saying that is very sad. I feel very sorry for you if you do not
            understand. The world must be an incredibly scary place for you. It is for
            everyone, of course, but to not have the ability to objectively assess logic,
            reason, statistics, and science would induce, for me at least, utterly
            horrifying fear.

          • reefer

            You sounded intelligent until you grouped cannabis with heroin(why didn’t you just spell it “marihuana”) and claimed that MDMA isn’t addictive( i know of a few E-tards who would claim otherwise)

          • LEARNtheTRUTH

            Its interesting that you think you can assess my intelligence from a few sentences, or even that entire post. That is impossible to do accurately.

            Cannabis and heroin are both addictive. That is a scientific fact. That is why they were grouped together, along with many other addictive compounds, as it was the criterion I was referring to. I am not saying their addiction potential is equal, or that they are equivalent in any way, except that they are both addictive. This is a minute detail in the major point which I am getting at, which is that we need to view addictive drug use as a mental health disorder, not an ethical, moral, or criminal issue. I also said that cannabis is not a perfect example because it does indeed have many medicinal benefits.

            I am not sure whether you are referring to actual MDMA which is a specific molecule, or people who claim they take Molly or Ecstacy, which are vernacular terms and consist of a plethora of phenethylamine derivatives. This is sometimes mixed with some form of amphetamine, in the latter especially, for a more stimulatory effect. Ecstacy is usually in tablet form and thus it is impossible to know the actual constituents except by GC/MS. MDMA is a specific molecule, 3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methylamphetamine, re-discovered by Alexander Shulgin around 1976. MDMA could only induce dependence in large quantities over long periods of time. It is, however, nearly impossible to use pure, actual, MDMA for more than two consecutive days even at reasonable dosing. This is because MDMA induces complete tachyphylaxis in serotenergic neurons very very rapidly, so there would be little to no effect. Additionally, the return to neural homeostatic levels of serotonin takes an extremely long time. It simply wont work in that manner, because it cannot work. MDMA is actually ranked as having an equivalent or lower level of actual harm than cannabis, in several studies.
            I’m not sure I agree with that, but you get the point, I hope. I know many, many people who have used MDMA recreationally, but only use it sparingly and without any dependence or habit forming issues. I do not know anyone who takes “Ecstasy” tablets, but I imagine they are not the same at all.

            Why would I spell it “marihuana”? That is fairly irrelevant. The scientific name for the plant, as given to it by Carolus Linnaeus in 1753 is Cannbis Sativa and thus I will call it by its scientific name because I prefer to do so.

            If you are really curious about all these things, I would recommend reading
            Psychopharmacology: Drugs, Behavior and the Brain by Jerrold Meyer and Linda Quenzer. You will also probably want to read Physiology of Behavior by Neil Carson before, otherwise the majority of what is discussed in the psychopharmacology book will have little to no context.

          • reefer

            You called it marijuana. Not cannabis. Addictive potential closer to video games than heroin. Nice backpedal attempt, though.

          • LEARNtheTRUTH

            This is actually kind of amusing. I believe I may have called it both. Semantics aside, even if I did call it marijuana, is that REALLY the point of this issue? Is that really all you have gotten out of this? That’s pretty sad if so.

            And cannabis is not equatable to video games. Cannabis induces changes in the brain by modification of the reward pathways (nucleus accumbens and ventromedial tegmental area) that video games do not. Video games produce the majority of neurological alterations in the amygdala. These regions are not equivalent. One alters the fundamental reward mechanisms in the brain, the other induces changes in the fear processing, and one of the emotional processing regions. They are not equal. Cannabis is about as addictive as coffee. That is a much better example, still gets the point across that cannabis isn’t very addictive, and is actually factually correct as evidenced by scientific study and statistical variation significance. Regardless, withdrawal only occurs because of the modifications to these reward pathways.

            Do you even know the neurological mechanism of action behind cannabis?
            It actually induces its rewarding effects by stimulating mu opioid receptors in the nucleus accumbens. This is the exact same set of receptors that heroin and all opiates work on. It does not occupy as many receptors, nor does it have the same activity as heroin because it is only a partial agonist for CB1 receptors, thus the binding affinity is low, and so the effects will be lessened, not to mention it works through a G-protein coupled receptor which means its mechanism is not direct, so much of the activity will result in increased or reduced firing in other neuronal regions. But they do actually work, in the end, on the same receptors to cause increased release of dopamine in the nucleus accumbens and alteration in the VTA to reduce the concentration of dopaminergic presynaptic and postsynaptic neurons. To the same magnitude? Of course not. But the fact of the matter is they are both addictive.

            And there is no “back-pedalling”. Cannabis is undeniably habit forming and has withdrawal symptoms. And so does heroin. There was no statement in either response to say the addictions were equal in any way but if really you want to debate the fact that they are both addictive, then you clearly do not accept factual, irrefutable information, and there is no point to continuing this conversation until you are are willing to do so. If one were to follow your logic, then my statement would be saying all of the drugs I listed were equal, which is clearly not correct and is not something I have ever said. Each drug needs to be evaluated based on its own potential. You are clearly missing the point of all of this information, which is too bad. You have taken one statement, which clearly wasn’t specific enough for you to understand, and made it into the end all, be all, which is pointless at best.

            As I said, you should read. Then you might have some clue. Better yourself through learning. Arbitrary and otherwise uninformed statements, coupled with the pointless arguments you are trying to continue is not only useless, but detracts from the legitimacy of your responses. Instead of learning and using actual science, you seem to rely on natural logic and widely perpetuated misinformation. Read some real scientific literature, as I suggested. The books I listed are very informative and rely on scientific and mathematical proof. I doubt you will read them based on the responses you have posted, but you should if you actually want to have any idea of what you are talking about.

          • jarmstead

            Well done my new friend. Unfortunately, the mind you seek to educate has an even larger disorder than any mentioned in your diatribe above. This person has the worst disorder any human can suffer; a “closed mind.”

        • The Other LA

          What does a righteous shooting sound like? Does it sound different than an unrighteous shooting? No really, what does it sound like? Does it sound like Angel’s harps? Does it sound like Mozart? Are you the shooting whisperer? This filthy drug war, with corrupt and trigger happy cops on the take going after the low hanging fruit, that seems ok to you? Or in your terminology, that “sounds” ok with you? But hey you’re the “sound” expert, right?

          • MrBelvedere

            A closed mouth gathers no feet.

        • HellNo

          Cop

        • MrBelvedere

          WASHINGTON DC Sept 6 1990 — Casual drug users “ought to be taken out and shot,” Los Angeles Police Chief Daryl F. Gates told a Senate hearing Wednesday on the first anniversary of the Bush Administration’s war on drugs.

          • jarmstead

            … and you know how Daryl Gates’ career turned out…? Not well for that POS.

        • Wha

          “Righteous” are you kidding me? Nobody deserves to die righteously. Yes he had a criminal record but thats does not mean he deserves to die. The cops could have shot out a fire or something, but not him. Ignorant people.

        • Lastrealindian

          “IF” Andy was the pos the arrest record says he is and was…I do not blame police officer for firing the very “first” shot; which should have been over his head. When he began shooting him after the first shot is where “I” see a murder conviction. Maybe. These damn black racists are wanting to get away with and damn thing “they” choose. “I” will shoot to kill if I am ever truly messed with by ANY color person! I am not a ‘racist’. I do not give any color exception when it comes to character. “Nigger”. Wow! That’s a bad word for “WHITES” to use to describe a black pos. I hear niggers call themselves nigger all the time and if they do not like it…too damn bad. I know “NIGGERS” of “all” colors!!! So, you fing blacks need to stop bitchin and whinning like bitches you are and suck it up!!! Nigger is a “CHARACTER” TRAIT! GET IT RIGHT! COLOR DON’T MATTER!!!!

  • paddler

    Friggin dirt bag drama queens with badges. They are the ones that need to be locked up.

  • skeeterass

    Where is the video tape? wearing a body camera is the only thing that will keep the police honest. and let there be no excuse for ever shutting it off other than to go into the bathroom.

    • We now have an App: 420 LAWS which among other features, the Panic Button is really #1. out going message to the person being pulled over. #2. a recording device that is saved on the iCloud and can not be erased by the police. Protect your Rights! because: “No one belongs in Jail for Marijuana” 1800420laws.com

  • Nominalis

    And the police wonder why nobody respects them anymore. I suppose the haters still like the police but that’s because they’re on the same page.

    • HellNo

      Right now the cops are on THIS page. They’re on paid vacation for committing murder and got nothing better to do than troll us.

      • Rob Trent

        You had better cut back to a half ounce a day. You are getting paranoid.

        • HellNo

          You’re not calling yourself DEA anymore?
          Eat a fucking doughnut, cop!

        • Nominalis

          Rob is psychic too, he can tell how much pot you smoke. Not to mention his ability to psychologically profile someone from a comment. A regular Uberman.

  • john

    we the people need to set up a raid on the police. we kinda out number them… someone look it up, im busy, but to my best guess there are only a few million cops TOPS… we are between 25- 50 million strong and getting stronger. why are we letting them continue to assault us, kill us, take our families, shoot our dogs, rob us of property and dignity all while trying to hide? Personally! I want to get a group up of maybe a 1000 or so and we go burn the DEA museum to the ground. WE didn’t let the Nazi buildings and statues stand after the war, why would we let these neo- Nazi racists keep a shrine that represents all the pain they caused us for the last 78 years?
    if your for it. email me at johnhunterplayer@gmail.com
    stop being scared people. our founders wouldn’t stand for this, we are only doing the world a disservice allowing these cowards to go unchecked.

    • DEA

      You’ve got to be the biggest dumbass on the entire internet for making a terroristic threat and then giving your name and email. I’ll forward this on to the FBI. Expect a knock on your door soon. Better get rid of all your drugs or you’ll not only be going to prison for making a terroristic threat against a law enforcement agency, but you’ll also be doing time for drug possession.

      • HellNo

        You want to kill him, don’t you?
        Go eat a doughnut, cop.

        • Rob Trent

          I’ve never eaten a “doughnut cop” before. Don’t even know where to buy one.

          • ChronicLogic

            Stupid fuck. The one time someone actually uses punctuation properly, you have to fuck it all up, and prove that punctuation doesn’t matter.

          • Rob Trent

            Stupid fuck! He edited his post after I wrote that. Get educated!

          • Jaden

            Just saying, he put a comma in there for a reason. “…doughnut, cop” is a lot different that “doughnut cop”

      • The Other LA

        Gestapo pig! Report that!

      • MrBelvedere

        LOL. 99.999999% of the tips submitted to tips.fbi.gov are from people complaining about the neighbors dogs barking, psychotics who think the FBI is following them, and a botnet that continuously, automatically, and programmatically submits fake tips to send them on a wild goose chase.

      • MrBelvedere

        LOL fail. 99.9999% of the tips submitted are from people complaining about their neighbors dogs barking, psychotics who think the FBI is following them, and a sophisticated botnet submitting bogus tips to send them on a wild goose chase.

      • ChronicLogic

        What? You aren’t reporting shit. You show your fucking ignorance by improperly using the term “terroristic threat”. His statement has nothing to do with terror, and he wasn’t making a threat.This dude isn’t going to do shit, and you know it. You just want to play like you are some prohibitionist piece of shit, who owns governance over the “interwebs”. By the way, where did you stupid (R) fuckers come up with that dumbass fucking term anyway. I say fuck you, and your exclusionary, supremacist, tattletale attitude. I left the US, because of holier than thou fucks like you. Report ME bitch. I smoke weed, I consume homemade spirits, I grow plants, I cut poppies in Prague, and roll my own hash. Nobody here gives a fuck. No one takes piss tests for employment here either. Not AVG, Honeywell, Motorola, AT&T, or any other big blue-chip company. Come the fuck on, and get ME, my door is always open. I’ll be waiting for your SEAL Team, kid.

        • Rob Trent

          Go read the definition of ‘terroristic threat’. Then STFU!

  • Nominalis

    Gay bashers use the same tactics as Florida cops. They pretend to be homosexuals to lure some gay guy into a secluded place and then beat the crap out of him. What is the difference between these cops and the gay bashers?

    • Scott Eaton

      The only difference is ,, is that the Police should stop

      • Old Soul

        So you condone violence toward gay people?

        • Scott Eaton

          What business is it of yours in what I believe in ?

          • Old Soul

            it’s not, but when you post a comment like that, expect a response.

  • HellNo

    Americans are fed up with racist, lazy, asshole cops getting fat off our tax dollars. They have used the power that we gave them to victimize us. Change is coming:

    Disband the DEA.
    Citizen review boards for police retention/review and complaints in every jurisdiction.
    Psychological testing and standards for all law enforcement.
    Increased education requirements.
    Body cameras worn while on duty.
    Five year probationary period for all newly hired officers.

    • Lastrealindian

      Sure there are racist lazy cops. NOT all police are like the ones you write about in a totally negative way. Without the “cops” your ass just might not be writing anything to anyone… If you really believe the puke you wrote, then, you had better never NEED a fing “cop”! Just maybe to save your someone in your families’ life. Maybe you.

      • The Other LA

        Why the umbrage? Hit too close to home?

        • Lastrealindian

          Close to home? You do not know me. I am “anti-any-authority”.

      • HellNo

        Good cops will pass psychological testing and citizen review boards.

      • jarmstead

        Last Indian – law enforcement needs a serious overhaul. I could place a call to the local police and it is highly unlikely that they would respond in any “life-saving” capacity or timely manner. Try it sometime and see how long it takes to get a response from a 911 call.

        If L.E. are busy doing “reverse stings” with drug addicts, they won’t have the resources to respond quickly. Most of these police in “Narcotics” teams are simply confiscating drugs, money, and vehicles to further their solvency. I saw a video on YouTube where the “team” was running operations to achieve the above objectives… and they were proud of the number of vehicles they were seizing (and the Year/Make/Model).

        I’m not saying that this is how all LE operates, however; you have to admit that decriminalization presents a serious threat to their job security and the monetizing of the prison systems.

        • Lastrealindian

          Jams, I know you have an excellent point about how truly bad the truly bad cops are in fact. Thugs with fing badges!!! Dude, I agree with what you are saying. I just know that there really are some good cops out there and not everyone of them are bad. There already is enough bad in this world without bad pigs… Your point is made.

        • Lastrealindian

          Jar Stead, maybe ‘you’ need to call the 911 for the police and that is sad. I never call the police unless their is an auto accident and someone is hurt, or, fire. I am pro gun and I come prepared every time. All the talk you have about running the police down to just pieces of shit, is just plain wrong. If we are doing our best to have marijuana “RE-LEGALIZED”

        • Lastrealindian

          cont. as it should be instead of remaining as is, we wouldn’t be talking all this stuff which really does not have one thing to do with our cause.

  • jarmstead

    Another shining example of our country’s failed drug policy/s. What threat did these crackheads really present? Now, a human being is dead and the circumstances (when the real shooting began) can only be confirmed by 4 “suspended with pay” L.E. officials.

    What is the real cost of paying 4 officers to sit around and do nothing but play video games? I have a serious problem with any “reverse sting” operation where the police sell previously confiscated drugs to “round up” drug users. These people should be in treatment, not incarcerated. This is the equivalent of “stuffing the ballot box” to further over-crowd the courts/jail system/s.

    ALL OF THIS NONSENSE needs to end. Decriminalize Cannabis and make it legal for folks to grow at home.