The Second Great I-502 Debate – HIGH TIMES Medical Cannabis Cup Seattle 2012

 Posted by at 8:47 AM on September 16, 2012  Ending Marijuana Prohibition  Add comments
Sep 162012
 

Legalization Seminar At The 2012 HIGH TIMES Medical Cannabis Cup In Seattle

The video below is footage from a discussion on whether to support a legalization initiative on the Washington ballot (broken up into two segments). The footage was taken yesterday at the 2012 HIGH TIMES Medical Cannabis Cup by the hardest working man in marijuana – the legendary Russ Belville.

For I-502
Alison Holcomb – ACLU of WA, New Approach Washington, Chief Petitioner
Pete Holmes – Seattle City Attorney

Against I-502
Douglas Hiatt – Seattle criminal defense attorney
Jeff Steinborn – NORML Board of Directors, Seattle criminal defense attorney

***

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About Johnny Green

Johnny Green is a marijuana activist from Oregon. He has a Bachelor's Degree in Public Policy. Follow Johnny Green on Facebook and Twitter. Also, feel free to email any concerns.
  • Tony Aroma

    Regardless of the merits, or lack thereof, of 502, if it doesn’t pass it will be infinitely more difficult next time around. It will give the prohibitionists another powerful argument against legalization. They’ll say, “See, we tried to come up with a compromise that everyone could live with, but these potheads want it all. They’ll never be satisfied with nothing short of free-for-all, anything-goes legalization.” And they wouldn’t be entirely wrong.

    One thing though, if the law passes it can always be tweaked. If too many are getting arrested for DUI, the 5 ng limit can be revisited. Think of 502 as a small step in the right direction, not the end result.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Matty-Con-Chatty/518533665 Matty Con Chatty

      WE WON’T BE HAPPY WITH LESS THAN 100% LEGALIZATION AND I’LL SMOKE NOW AND FOREVERMORE, (MY CAPS KEY IS BROKEN), ITS A PLANT THAT SCIENCE HAS PROVEN TO BE GOOD FOR US WITH NO DAMAGING EFFECTS. (HERE IS ONE OF MY SOURCES) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Md2WNqqxTQ , FEEL FREE TO LISTEN TO LEADING PHD’S IN THE FIELD OF CANNABIS RESEARCH AND CANCER RESEARCH. WORD TO YOUR MOM.

  • jontomas

    The anti group can only make a case by spinning lots of tales about what they think will happen after passing I-502. And, worse, they are building these scare stories on the CURRENT atmosphere of marijuana prohibition. All of this leads to a case built on the wildest of speculations WITHOUT taking into consideration that we will be operating under a NEW PARADIGM where marjuana possession by adults will be LEGAL.

    I-502 legalizes marijuana possession for adults. There is no argument about that. It is NOT speculation or predicting the future. That changes EVERYTHING. Not only will it improve the lives of all adult marijuana consumers – taking them out of the pariah status they now have – it takes us 90 PERCENT down the road to the ideal marijuana policy. That, in turn, will cause the QUICK collapse of the whole, shakey federal marijuana prohibition.

    ONLY ending the fraudulent prohibition will get us where we need to be with ALL aspects of marijuana policy – INCLUDING driving restrictions.

    In short, it’s very obvious the anti group are NOT marijuana reformers. They are greedy growers and others who profit from the STATUS QUO.

    Their allies are the police, prosecutors, alcohol and pharmaceuticals, prisons, corrupt politicians and money-laundering banks, and the DRUG CARTELS themselves.

    By their company, you shall know them.

    Any marijuana consumers who fall for this deception would be cutting their own throats by voting AGAINST their own freedom.

    How I wish we had never allowed medical marijuana without putting a cap on the price. If we had capped medical marijuana at $50 an ounce, there would be NONE of this fake opposition. They couldn’t care less about the DUI provisions. That’s just their inflatable monster they use to frighten the gullible.

    For proof, just witness these same greedy interests fighting against Colorado’s legalization initiative:

    http://www.csindy.com/IndyBlog/archives/2012/09/13/marijuana-campaign-calls-governors-statement-hypocritical&cb=554c94fbd331c8450218bb4a6ba5878f&sort=desc#readerComments

  • http://www.facebook.com/furrykiltman Kirk Ludden

    Sorry, I read it. It is NOT GOOD in the least. CCPA 514 http://www.cannabischildprotectionact.org

    • jontomas

      Easy to say. Impossible to show.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/John-Novak/100000434507436 John Novak

        I could say the same about promises from 502.
        Easy to say. Impossible to show.

        • jontomas

          You could if you close your eyes, shut down your brain, and ignore the whole march of progress of marijuana reform for the last 16 years – all leading up to the watershed moment of FREEDOM contained in this initiative.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/John-Novak/100000434507436 John Novak

            502 doesn’t live up to that kind of hype. If you think we are done with cannabis activism in this state, you aren’t paying attention.

          • jontomas

            Your problem is you think – or want others to think – I-502 only affects Washington. Nothing could be further from the truth. The most significant thing about I-502, and the initiatives in Oregon and Colorado, is the success of just one will cause the final collapse of the already shaky prohibition.

            Your denial of this salient fact speaks volumes.

  • http://disqus.com/notspicoli/ notSpicoli

    “Jeff Steinborn – NORML Board of Directors, Seattle criminal defense attorney”

    On this matter, Steinborn does not speak for NORML. Please note, I have an email from the NORML Foundation which states, “Mr. Steinborn’s opposition to I-502 is independent of the organization.”

    NORML’s board voted unanimously (13-0; two not present), including two members from Washington (Mr. Steinborn), to endorse I-502.

    NORML’s chapters in WA along with national NORML support I-502 “to substantively reform cannabis laws and therein challenge the federal prohibition.”

    When NORML endorsed I-502, NORML asked, “For those who feel they cannot support the current initiative we would hope they would step aside and take no public position, in order not to undermine what is an historic opportunity to end marijuana prohibition, by popular vote, under state law.” One would think this would be especially applicable to a board member.

    • SteveSarich

      Hmmmm…..NORML is going broke.

      NORML accepts a $50,000 “contribution” from NAW’s spokesman, cheerleader, and major contributor (Rick Steves)…..and NORML miraculously comes up with a “unanimous” vote of support for I-502 from the NORML Board of Directors.

      You have to understand “NORML Speak”. Under NORML Speak, “unanimous” means that 100% of the directors that voted to support I-502 were “unanimously” in favor of it. Those that were against it, or not even in the country when the vote was taken, are automatically excluded from the “unanimous” vote. Don’t let all this confuse you….I’m sure it makes perfect sense to someone.

      So Hiatt and Steinborn handed Holcom and Holmes a stunning defeat at the Hightimes “debate” on Saturday. The show of hands after the debate left no one supporting I-502 except the staff from NAW, NORML and that blowhard, Russ Belville. I believe we counted a total of eight votes altogether for the “yes” side.

      I-502 certainly didn’t win any “hearts and minds” at Seattle Hempfest. Olympia Hempfest was even worse for the 502 side. The Hightimes event showed 1-502 slipping even further into public opinion oblivion. If you can’t win any support for a “legalization” initiative at these three major marijuana events in Washington, I’d love to know where their much touted (and apparently mythical) 58% support is coming from/

      Are there thousands of closet-stoner soccer moms that are responsible for their inflated poll numbers? It’s obviously not the cannabis consumers that are supporting the initiative. Could these poll numbers actually be nothing but more bullshit? Would NAW, and their millionaire supporters, actually stoop to that level? I think you probably know the answer to that one already.

      Face it….NORML and MPP have had a pattern of supporting the wrong side of legislation here in Washington. If Alison Holcom wrote it….like the “plant limit” debaucle (SB 6032) that totally screwed Washington patients, NORML and MPP supported it….every time.

      Once again, and maybe for the final time, NORML and MPP seem to be totally out of touch with their support base. NORML is so poorly run that the big money donors, like Peter Lewis, refuse to provide them with the million dollar contributions given to several other drug reform organizations as long as Keith Stoup and Allen St. Pierre are running NORML.

      With NORML now pissing off both their base, as well as their biggest contributors, and with them facing financial ruin, wouldn’t you think that the Board of Directors would finally throw these two egomaniacal slime-balls to the curb and start rebuilding their brand?

      Local NORML organizations have patterned themselves after the bad behavior and thug-like tactics of their heroes, Stroup and St. Pierre. The name-calling and threats that have been the hallmark of the Stroup-St. Pierre dictatorship have spawned local chapters that believe that these are the tactics that NORML expects from them…..and they’re happy to perform.

      National NORML, WA NORML and Pierce County NORML have put all of their political eggs in one rickety basket. They have slandered the medical cannabis community, attempted to divide the entire cannabis community, and have attempted to paint anyone not supporting I-502 as nothing more than prohibitionists, greedy drug dealers, or whining patients who are plotting selfishly to deny pot to recreational users.

      These individuals better stop and think of what will happen to their organizations when I-502 goes down in flames on November 6th. There goes the only egg in their basket….just like Humpty Dumpty.

      Steve Sarich
      NO ON I-502 Committee

      • http://disqus.com/notspicoli/ notSpicoli

        Like I said, Steinborn is not speaking for NORML on this.

      • http://radicalruss.com/ RadicalRuss

        Wow, yeah, people who smoke pot all day every day and expect to be able to drive harassment free, the kinds who attend Hempfests and Cannabis Cups, the kind who are naturally resistant to any authority, yes, I’m terrified they will remember to show up to vote on November 6.

        I have Doug Hiatt shouting into the camera saying all we need to do is tell the truth, that there is no problem with kids and there is no problem with driving. While that plays well as a stump speech to the pot party crowd, if I were legalization’s real opposition, I’d loop that with a run down of his proposal to remove all marijuana laws and leave no regulations in their wake and just watch the 30-45 demographic fall off the polls.

        You lie again. Rick Steves donations have gone to the campaign, not to NORML. If they had, perhaps things might have turned out differently for me. And NORML’s Board, Jeff Steinborn included, all members included or voted by proxy for the ones who were out of the country, voted unanimously to support I-502. Give me credit at least for knowing what was going on internally at the organization you loathe that I once worked for (I may have a better idea of the internal workings than you).

        And last I checked, NAW has raised $3,000,000 for legalization in Washington State that continues to poll in the majority. Others who promise pie-in-the-sky can’t get half the required signatures to put True Legalization(tm) on the ballot.

        Keep barking, Steve. You are your causes own worst enemy. You pay well for the medical marijuana martyrs and lose five voters for every one of yours. Thanks for, in an ironic way, helping to pass I-502.

      • jontomas

        The medical marijuana community is not against I-502. The initiative will be the best thing that ever happened to medical consumers.

        If they act responsibly, they will no longer have to worry about being arrested, or being snitched on by neighbors, delivery people are someone with grudge. They will no longer feel they have to hide their consumption of marijuana as if it were somehow a shameful act. They will no longer have to go through doctors to get permission. They will no longer have to pay outrageously high prices for a plant, and they will no longer have to worry about their sources being raided and shut down.

        It’s a win-win for everyone but the greedy growers, et al.

        • http://www.facebook.com/huck.weedist Huck Weedist

          I disagree. The MMJ community has shown significant adversity toward I-502 (which, Holcomb has somewhat brilliantly wielded to garner support for 502 from non-cannabis users. Second, you mention “greedy growers” as if they set the prices within access points. That’s a glaringly inaccurate assumption. All prices are set by the access points, despite how much they purchase the medicine for.

      • http://disqus.com/notspicoli/ notSpicoli

        Yeah, it was so neat to see the other another NORML advisory board member, Willie Nelson, put on his “Yes on I-502″ shirt and encouraging the audience members at his concert in Puyallup to vote, “Yes” on I-502.

  • Oneoldguyandruss

    After the debate, the moderator conducted n informal poll of who in the crowd supported I-502. One guy from NORML, Rectal Russ, and the I-502 staff from the yes on I-502 booth were the only people at the event that supported I-502.
    No one else in the entire room raised their hand to support it, while nearly everyone else in the room opposed I-502. If the I-502 diehards from their booth were not there it would have been one old guy from NORML and Russ. If the Pro trolls on this site had showed up, it would have boosted the I-502 supporters by 50%. (assuming they are not the same few people spreading their lies 24/7)

    I am not sure exactly how many people attended the event, but 10 out of 2000 is about one half of one percent. Let’s hope the public comes to a similar conclusion after they read what is really in the 64 page frankenstein initiative that is being falsely branded as “Legalization”. The crowd at the High Times event were not fooled, and overwhelmingly opposed I-502.

    • http://disqus.com/notspicoli/ notSpicoli

      “…one old guy from NORML. and Russ.” Thanks a bunch. I’m still young at heart. And anytime I am mentioned in the same sentence as Russ Belville, I am honored.

      • SteveSarich

        I’m glad that you’re happy to be mentioned in the same sentence as Russ. I hope the Board of Directors of NORML provides you with the same exit strategy that they did for Russ.

        • jontomas

          Russ leaving NORML was a good move for him – AND for marijuana reform. His show has become the nerve center for reform that NORML never could quite manage.

          We are a video nation in a video age. A real leader must master the mediums of his time. Marc Emery did it first with the brilliant, ground-breaking Pot TV. Now Russ is carrying on that legacy and building it even greater.

          • SteveSarich

            Send your hero money….he’s going to need it. When his pet project, I-502 dies, so will his show. We all pick causes. Some of us just pick the wrong ones. That’s Russ. He already knows it….he’s just waiting and hoping he was wrong.

          • http://twitter.com/AmKonDotNet AmKon Dot Net

            What will you do when 502 passes? You’ll have to compete with the legal market, and might have to change careers.

          • Tobi

            No, I’m sure making pornography will never yield shabby profits. Of course he will probably lose most of it by filing menial lawsuits.

      • Bungholebuddieswithruss

        I am glad you are proud of your brown nosing for rectal russ bunghole. He needs all of the support he can get, since he is largely irrelevant to any but the most extreme fanatics. The fact is that even at an event populated by stoners, no one aside from you, russ and the I-502 booth staff supported I-502. I don’t know if marginalization or rectalization is the better term for your political status.

        • http://disqus.com/notspicoli/ notSpicoli

          Cognitive restructuring might help. Just keep repeating to yourself, “I am not a loser.” Once such thoughts are integrated, it can change the reality. Best of luck.

    • http://radicalruss.com/ RadicalRuss

      Thank you, that’s the funniest one yet.

      Guess what? 57% pro-I-502 in the polls. Most of them don’t go to Cannabis Cups. In fact, the vocal opposition of people who smoke pot all day every day complaining they won’t be able to drive is converting more undecidedsto vote yes than no. You are your position’s own worst enemy.

      • SteveSarich

        First you went after the medical patients, trying to divide the cannabis community. When you got your ass handed to you by the rest the cannabis community, those you describe as “the vocal opposition of people who smoke pot all day every day”….”the kinds who attend Hempfests and Cannabis Cups, the kind who are naturally resistant to any authority”….you’ve now decided that THEY’RE the enemy : “I’m terrified they will remember to show up to vote on November 6.”

        Do you really think that our opposition to I-502, from both patients and recreational users, will help you and your friends with I-502 actually win in November? You had 8 people in the entire audience agreeing with you….that included you, the New Approach Washington Kool-aid team, the NORMAL booth, and that one really, really stoned kid from SSDP.
        Now that you don’t have ANY of us on “your” side anymore, who exactly DO you think will be providing you with that “58%” on November 6th? So who do you represent now, just the soccer moms? Hopefully you can get THEM to sponsor your show.
        And let’s be clear about something. You got fired by the CEO of NORML for being a totally obnoxious asshole and a real embarrassment…especially to NORML. Do you really want me to publish the emails proving why you REALLY got fired? Did you lie and tell people it was over NORML not having the money to pay you anymore? You and I both have the emails and you know why you really got the axe….and it wasn’t the money.
        Keep on finding more of us to attack in the community here…go ahead. Keep on trying to divide us. No one cares what you think anymore….not the board of NORML and not the cannabis community in Washington.
        If you don’t like us “stoners” here in Washington, don’t feel an obligation to show up here again and interfere with legislation in our state.
        Steve SarichNO ON I-502 Campaign

        • http://radicalruss.com/ RadicalRuss

          Ha! So you know better about why I was terminated from NORML? Your powers of extra-sensory perception are growing by leaps and bounds.
          Please, publish all the emails you have. The more the better. I’m bound by ethics not to, but I’d love the truth to be known. I mean, you already lied about Rick Steves’ donation to NORML, causing one of your own heroes, Jeff Steinborn, to have to correct you here publicly.

          (In case readers care: NORML told me to raise funds to travel. I did, soliciting our listeners and raising $3,500. When it came time to travel, NORML said they didn’t have the funds. I protested on air and ceased production of their show. NORML fired me two weeks later. And yet, I maintain good relations with NORML; their deputy director still records regular segments for my show and I’m still good friends with most of the Board.)

          Unfortunately, your powers of reality perception are slipping. Polling organizations show I-502 with majority support among likely voters. Less than 10% of Washingtonians smoke pot monthly. Most of them are not patients or “patients”. Most of them like the idea of not being arrested for an ounce or less because it is LEGAL. Most of them like the idea of toppling prohibition and ending the permission slip system.
          No doubt, you No on I-502′ers are a vocal bunch. You do great at showing up to smoke-pot-all-day parties and obfuscating DUID studies (e.g., I had to spend thirty minutes explaining to Left Coast Cannabis’s owner how it wasn’t INACTIVE carboxy-THC, like they get from piss tests, that we’re talking about) and making a bunch of rude grumbling and hissing noises at panel presentations.
          And again, from outside your echo chamber, you are politically dooming your own cause. The change from the July poll to the September poll showed 2% of undecideds went each to Yes and to No. So it seems for every 1 you scare into voting No, another sees the “give them an inch, they take a mile”, “smoke all day every day”, “we’re just fine to drive even through we’re medicated” crowd freaking out and figures, “Well, if Steve Sarich is against it, there’s got to be something good there.” The public recognizes that the money funding No on I-502 comes from those who make bank on “compassion” and quasi-legality.
          By the way, for being someone nobody cares about, you seem to always appear in comments sections to attack me. For being somebody nobody cares about, it’s interesting to see my opinions carried by Huffington Post, Salon, AlterNet, High Times, West Coast Leaf, The Baker Institute, and The Weed Blog with a byline and your name wayyyyy down below in the comments. For someone nobody cares about, it’s fascinating that I’m backstage at six HIGH TIMES cups and a speaker at six consecutive Hempfests, while you’re demonizing legalization of marijuana to convince people to vote alongside the DEA and the Drug Czar. For someone nobody cares about, it’s intriguing how radicalruss.com is in the top 40,000 US websites by traffic, but NWBud.com is below the top 100,000 and Cannacare.com doesn’t even show up in the rankings.

          And yes, people who vote with the Drug Czar are my enemy, I don’t care how sick they are and how much pot they smoke. While you gots yours with your doctor’s permission slips and your illusion of legality with tolerated dispensaries and no protection from arrest, 60,000 Mexicans have been slaughtered in a war to provide the rest of us with weed from Bellingham to Birmingham and everywhere in-between.

          So what shall we tell the Mexican mom whose teen was shot in a drug war turf battle? Or for that mattter, the Washington mom whose healthy kid loses his financial aid over a joint? “Sorry, you’re going to have to wait until Steve Sarich and his buddies get ‘true legalization’ on the ballot before we can begin to end our drug war that hurt your kid. Sure, they haven’t gotten it on the ballot in three tries, failing to even gather half the required signatures. Sure, even if they did get it on the ballot, it would poll worse than Oregon’s legalization that’s at 46%. Sure, big money donors who fund the ads you need to win won’t touch it with a ten foot pole. Sure, the next real shot in a presidential election year won’t come around until 2016… but we can hold out. That’s only 40,000 more Washington marijuana arrests and 60,000 more dead Mexicans away.”

          You all bray about the DUID provisions as if the possibility of getting a DUID doesn’t exist now. I’ll ask again, for the thousandth time, and once again, you’ll ignore the question because you can’t answer it. But maybe if I shout:

          FIND ME THE ONE WASHINGTON PATIENT WHO, IN THIRTEEN YEARS OF MEDICAL MARIJUANA, IN THE BILLIONS OF MILES DRIVEN, WHO:

          * DROVE A CAR
          * GOT PULLED OVER
          * WAS SUSPECTED OF IMPAIRMENT
          * FAILED A SOBRIETY TEST
          * GOT ARRESTED
          * TAKEN TO A CLINIC
          * HAD BLOOD DRAWN
          * IT TURNED UP >5ng/ml
          * WENT TO TRIAL
          * HAD >5ng/ml ADMITTED INTO EVIDENCE
          * GOT AN ACQUITTAL ON DUID CHARGES

          You can’t. The risk you fear exists NOW. Right now, if you are so terrified about DUID, you should be telling every Washington patient to take the bus. Right now, if the legendary “I slept all night and woke up at 13ng/ml” patient gets behind the wheel, she is just an asshole cop or a wreck away from getting that DUID conviction NOW.

          How many times have you been pulled over in thirteen years, Steve? How many times did you have to take a sobriety test? How many times did you fail, get arrested, and have blood drawn?

          Now, this notion of my friend Doug Hiatt posits, that possession arrests will just turn into DUID arrests, is ludicrous. There were 10,000 possession arrests and around 38,000 DUID arrests last year. 4% of those DUIDs are for all drugs, not just cannabis, but cannabis is likely to be the majority of those, so at most, 1,520 pot DUIDs, and likely fewer. (These are called “statistics”, you ought to try them in your argument some time.)

          So, for DUID’s to match possession arrests, they’d have to increase 657% next year. Meanwhile, in thirteen other states that have instituted per se DUID laws (http://stash.norml.org/bigbook/charts/Thirteen%20Per%20Se%20DUID%20States.jpg), the greatest rise in DUID arrests occurred in Indiana, where they went up by a third, and that’s with absolute zero tolerance for metabolites in pee, not active THC in blood, with roadside sobriety checkpoints that are illegal in Washington, and in a state that is rabidly anti-pot.

          “Oh, but that’s not a medical state!” Fine. Michigan instituted per se DUID in 2003, medical marijuana in 2008. DUIDs dropped 8% following enactment of medmj and DUIDs are now 30% lower than before the per se DUID was enacted.

          I’ve been fighting prohibitionists for seven years now who proclaim the sky will fall and disaster will be upon us should we legalize marijuana. Now you’re Chicken Little… literally, as you’re too chicken to approach me at these events and too chicken to call in live to the show to defend yourself.

          But you sure are brave in the comments sections! A veritable Screen Beret. OK, I’m done now, I’m sure you have some cutting ad hominem attacks to spew somewhere…

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/John-Novak/100000434507436 John Novak

            Hey Russ,

            I guess I just don’t understand why you feel the need to marginalize the same demographic you’ve helped foster and rely on over the years with your show.

            Siding with the Drug Czar? The drug czar is the one that is pushing per se limits which 502 will put in place. John McKay said he wrote it to prevent federal interference. The tax/regulate may never happen, but the drug czar’s per se DUID law goes into effect the next day.

            502 is the one in step with the drug czar!
            http://www.whitehouse.gov/ondcp/drugged-driving

            I find it interesting that it is OK for pro 502 people to point out the obvious flaws, but when the people against it point out these very same flaws, we are told our opinions don’t matter.

            If you haven’t noticed, both sides of this debate are against prohibition and even you and all the others I have spoken with about this agree on that point.

            Finally, if the cops reported to the state that they anticipate MORE arrest, prosecutions and imprisonment under 502 if passed, why wouldn’t you believe them? Why should I not take that seriously?

            http://www.ofm.wa.gov/initiatives/2012/502_fiscal_impact.pdf

          • jontomas

            Why do you ignore the most important benefit of I-502? That it will cause the collapse of the shaky marijuana prohibition, nationwide.

            My money is still on the obvious answer that greedy prohibition profiteers like you don’t WANT the fraudulent prohibition to end.

            Because with it goes your business. – Just another drug gang.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/John-Novak/100000434507436 John Novak

            You are in la la land if you think 502 is going to end the black market.

            And by the way…I don’t have a marijuana business and I do not belong to a gang. Nice try, and I have already told you this before.

            I have worked hard for the last two years to help end prosecutions of medical patients by writing letters and being a court witness for patients. I’ve helped gather signatures for three different legalization initiatives and spent countless hours going door to door to businesses in Eastern Washington to promote cannabis for all uses. I am also a member of the Cannabis Defense Coalition.

            The cause of the collapse is not because of 502, it is because the truth of cannabis is finally being told by the people who use it and the people who study it.

            You will only end the black market and the violence around it when EVERY adult has the right to grow their own at home, in their own gardens for their own personal use.

            If you want to appeal to ignorance and fear based reefer madness in order to appease corporations and law enforcement, especially at the FEDERAL level, go right ahead. Just don’t expect me to be your cheerleader.

            If my goal was greed, I would be promoting 502 so I could go out and sell it to every adult, not just patients. Get real.

          • jontomas

            >>>”The cause of the collapse is not because of 502, it is because the truth of cannabis is finally being told by the people who use it and the people who study it.”

            LOL! And how do you think the will of the people who discover this truth will be expressed? – By passing these state re-legalization initiatives, of course. The states have to drag the feds kicking and screaming to the end of the fraudulent prohibition – just as it happened with ending alcohol prohibition.

            >>>”You will only end the black market and the violence around it when EVERY adult has the right to grow their own at home, in their own gardens for their own personal use.”

            You’ve got it backwards. That’s what will happen AFTER we end the black market by re-legalizing. And these initiatives are the best and fastest way to do that. – Your continuous denial of this fact is a clear indication you attempt to distract and deceive.

            >>>”If my goal was greed, I would be promoting 502 so I could go out and sell it to every adult, not just patients.”

            Try that fantasy on someone gullible. Once marijuana is re-legalized, average quality marijuana will sell for around $50 an ounce. Most of it will be sold in liquor stores at first, and eventually, wherever beer is sold. Your business model based on a quasi-monopoly and outrageously high prices will evaporate.

            It’s just a plant. Get out of the way of freedom.

          • http://twitter.com/AmKonDotNet AmKon Dot Net

            “If my goal was greed, I would be promoting 502 so I could go out and sell it to every adult, not just patients.”

            You clearly have no idea how the law of supply and demand works.

          • http://radicalruss.com/ RadicalRuss

            If you really think the Drug Czar is cheering in anticipation of I-502′s passage because it has a 5ng per se in it, you’re hallucinating. I asked his right hand man in March about it and was told the Drug Czar strongly opposes I-502.

      • jontomas

        Right. The vast majority of marijuana consumers are RESPONSIBLE adults who have no problem with reasonable restrictions. And as you say, non-consumers who don’t realize the effects of marijuana and naturally equate it to alcohol, DEFINITELY want these restrictions.

        There’s no stopping an idea whose time has come – no matter how many greedy imposters try to fool others.

        Thanks for ALL you do, Russ. It’s really an incredible job!

    • http://disqus.com/notspicoli/ notSpicoli

      ANOTHER POLL HAS I-502 AHEAD. Elway Poll conducted September 8-12. Initiative 502, which would legalize, regulate and tax sale of marijuana to adults, is up by a 50-38 percent margin with 12 percent undecided. It was leading by only 46-44 percent when Elway polled in July. The 12-point lead is up from a 2-point lead in July.

    • http://www.facebook.com/huck.weedist Huck Weedist

      I believe the majority of the people present were in the local mmj industry. So, it’s a pretty biased snapshot.

  • Jeff Steinborn

    So much venom!! How do we ever expect to get anything done?

    Please allow me to dispel the confusion about my vote at the NORML Board meeting.
    As founder and counsel (I call him the “Mother of NORML”) Keith Stroup has pointed out, NORML endorses all legalization measures that reach the ballot. Whether to endorse was never really an issue.
    I was not present at the board meeting where I-502 was considered. I gave my proxy to another member with instructions to vote to endorse with strong (and specific) reservations. The motion to endorse was carried unanimously. The motion to attach reservations was defeated. The Board then considered where to publish its concerns, and did so.
    The NORML Board has also passed a resolution that clarifies that I am not required to follow a NORML party line in my personal capacity.
    My personal reservations have remained unchanged. I have never spoken for NORML on this issue.
    I am hopeful that after November 6 we will come together again to deal with whatever bad marijuana laws are there–be the new ones or the old ones.
    Jeff Steinborn.

  • Jeff Steinborn

    I should also point out that despite what appeared at first glance to be credible rumors to the contrary, Rick Steves did not donate $50,000 to NORML. He donated $50,000 to NAW. No one at NORML will see any of that money. The donation was made several weeks after NORML endorsed NAW. I would not be surprised to find that NORML’s endorsement encouraged Rick to donate to NAW, but that seems legitimate even to me, an opponent of I-502.

    J

  • RoseE

    DRUG COP REVEALS HE’S WORKING WITH MEDICAL MARIJUANA GROUPS TO OPPOSE I-502

    In an interview on KATU.com, Pat Slack, the Commander of the Snohomish
    Regional Drug Task Force reveals, “The medical marijuana groups have
    contacted me. We’ve kind of partnered up to oppose I-502.” He adds,
    “Kind of a strange partnership.”
    The video is found at http://www.katu.com/politics/170060476.html