Nov 102014
 November 10, 2014

Florida medical marijuanaFlorida’s medical marijuana initiative, Amendment 2, was narrowly defeated on Election Day 2014. Despite the fact that the initiative received almost 58% of the vote, it still lost due to the fact that Florida requires at least 60% of the vote. By all accounts, the measure was very close to passing. Organizers plan on running a similar initiative in 2016 unless Florida’s Legislature steps up and passes a meaningful medical marijuana bill, which is clearly something that a large majority of Floridians want.

If the Florida Legislature drags their feet, which every state legislature is known to do, then 2016 will hopefully see a new and improved campaign. Many activists have pointed out things that the campaign could have done better. One of the first things the campaign will need to do is analyze exit polls from Election Day to see who voted ‘no’ on the initiative, and come up with ways to chip away at those demographics. NBC posted a great article breaking down voting by demographic. Below are some of the results:

  • 62% of voters 65 and older voted ‘no’
  • 63% of ‘conservative’ voters voted ‘no’, with 60% of Republicans voting ‘no’
  • 63% of Republican women voted no, along with 58% of Republican men
  • 53% of ‘White Protestant/other Christian’ voted ‘no’

It’s fairly obvious who opposed medical marijuana in Florida the most – older, conservative, Protestant white people. The 2016 campaign needs to pour over that data and come up with ways to find less than 3% of voters they can swing to the ‘yes’ side. Something that a lot of veteran activists have called for, and I’d add my name to that list, is to work more with Robert Platshorn and his Silver Tour network. They also need to put Cathy Jordan and Irv Rosenfeld in front of voters and media early and often. Those three people were under utilized during the campaign, which had they been utilized more, may have changed the outcome of the election.

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  65 Responses to “Who Voted Against Medical Marijuana In Florida?”

  1.  

    Dumb old bastards!! They voted against their own well being. They could reduce their blood pressure meds, pain meds, etc. but no. They’re happy eating the fucking poison pills day after day. It won’t be long before their ignorance kills them so maybe next time? Disclaimer: I’m old too.

  2.  

    Wait, what’s this?

    “63% of ‘conservative’ voters voted ‘no’, with 60% of Republicans voting ‘no’”

    Well, that seems to be a direct contradiction to what Jetdoc says in here quite often! It’s almost as if he was just making stuff up!

    “The 2016 campaign needs to pour over that data and come up with ways to find less than 3% of voters they can swing to the ‘yes’ side. ”

    Well, that’s one way of looking at it. The other way is to get young people and liberals off their lazy asses in the midterms, since they stayed home in record numbers.

    •  

      What bothers me about your post is that you’re as jubilant as a fat kid locked overnight in a chocolate factory that Amendment 2 failed simply because you got the opportunity rub Jetdoc’s nose in it. I can’t find the words to describe how petty that is.

      BTW — examining the demographics, 20% of the self-identified “liberals” voted NO on 2, as well as 29% of Democrats. Neither fact makes me the least bit happy.

      It bothers me that Amendment 2 only needed 250k votes to pass, receiving 3,363,522 votes. It also bothers me that Charlie Crist only got 47.1% of Florida’s 6,026,093 turnout, or 2.84 million votes, while Rick Scott got 48.2% and “won” re-election. But this bothers me even more — being charitably conservative with the numbers, let’s assume that only 20% of Crist supporters (not 29%) voted against Amendment 2 — that’s (at least) 568k liberal/democrat/progressive Crist supporters who voted No on 2.

      When you consider the fact that 2 only needed 250k votes to pass and that (at least) 568k liberals voted AGAINST it, perhaps you should, once again, get down off your soap box, Scott. I’m wildly impressed that 40% of Republicans voted for the Amendment. That means 40% of the 2.9 million people who supported Skeletor (1.16 million Floridians who voted Republican) are more compassionate than (at least) 568k self-identified liberals.

      •  

        “What bothers me about your post is that you’re as jubilant as a fat kid locked overnight in a chocolate factory that Amendment 2 failed simply because you got the opportunity rub Jetdoc’s nose in it. ”

        What bothers me about you is that you, like Jetdoc, just make stuff up.

        I am not jubilant. I am sickened by it. I am sickened by both the Democrats and Republicans who voted against it. But I know who really voted against it. I know who is MOST to blame.

        But what I’m really sickened by is the people in this country who have told us one stack of lies after another that have turned out to not be true. We have been told that NOT raising the minimum wage is a better thing for the economy. We have been told that keeping weed illegal is better. We have been told that Iraq had an active weapons program that was going to nuke someone soon. We were told the Iraq war would pay for itself. We were told that tax cuts to the rich and deregulation on steroids would create millions of jobs. We were told that stamping crap paper AAA so that the derivatives market was worth MANY TIMES more than the underlying mortgages was going to make us all rich, float all our boats. We were told QE would lead to rampant inflation. We were told that austerity would stimulate economies all over the world that desperately need infrastructure spending. We were told that Republicans weren’t extremists who would take away women’s liberty with draconians abortion laws.* We were told abstinence only laws would prevent teen pregnancy. We were told that textbooks should teach creationism. We were told all kinds of things…

        And the people who have been wrong on every single one of those things continues to get the votes from people who come on a weed blog and profess to stand for legalization.

        That’s what bothers me.

        And then to have Jetdoc state, numerous times, that a majority of Republicans support legalization… when the proof is that in this state (and I would wager in many others), the actual number of Republicans who support medicinal–not even legalization–JUST MEDICINAL, is only 40% In other words, he has again been proven to be a bullshitter. So you’re damn right I’m going to point out–rub his nose in it as you put it–that he came on here and said things that are, once again, revealed as not true.

        So my question is: what is the price for being wrong? Nothing? Not even some ridicule in the comment section of a weed blog?

        Really?

        “I can’t find the words to describe how petty that is.”

        Oh yeah? I can certainly find the words for what you did… what you twisted around to call me petty. To accuse me of being jubilant of what I maintain is TORTURE… What the UN special rapporteur on torture says** is torture–the denial of pain medication as prescribed by a doctor due to arcane drug laws. I have the opposite of jubilation, so your whole construct falls back on the dilapidated political party you’ve locked yourselves onto for some delusional reason.

        “examining the demographics, 20% of the self-identified “liberals” voted NO on 2, as well as 29% of Democrats. Neither fact makes me the least bit happy.”

        Well, let’s see… you do the math. What is the percentage by which my party kicked your party’s ass on this issue?

        I have a serious problem with conservative democrats. And I have good news… this last election, you Republicans have helped us weed out even more blue dogs, while progressives did quite well… like in Oregon, or New Mexico. Someday I hope my party will learn this lesson and be proud of where we stand on issues, especially on civil liberties.

        “250k votes to pass and that (at least) 568k liberals voted AGAINST it, perhaps you should, once again, get down off your soap box”

        Why? I’ll say it again. I will put the numbers from my party up against the numbers from your party any day. And if you had a lick of sense about the issue we stand for on THIS BLOG, then you’d know that when you come on here and defend Republican politicians for whom you voted—who are ANTI WEED– then you are telling everyone here that you care more about whatever–guns, taxes on the rich, Wall Street coddling, violating civil liberties, abortion, gay bashing, atheist hating–whatever it is that makes you vote for anti-pot authoritarians IS MORE IMPORTANT to you than the subject of this blog.

        “40% of Republicans voted for the Amendment”

        And they voted for Rick Scott, who I believe has a financial stake in companies that profit from prohibition. What will he do to help your cause? You vote for medicinal and then you turn around and vote for someone who opposed the amendment to be your Governor? When his opponent was for it?

        Really?

        Does that cognitive dissonance hurt? Do you ever consider voting for pro-weed politicians? Or does your desire for another outcome on another issue take precedence?

        “That means 40% of the 2.9 million people who supported Skeletor (1.16 million Floridians who voted Republican) are more compassionate than (at least) 568k self-identified liberals”

        But are they more compassionate? They voted for a Governor who supports the torture of prohibition. They voted for cuts to services, for control of women’s bodies, for more market rigging so the rich can cost-shift their negative externalities onto those who can least afford it?

        Wouldn’t you say that since compassion can be measured in many ways, your statement is a bit broad? They are more compassionate on the particular data point of their vote on the amendment. But they are less compassionate by electing a Governor, and a state legislature, and local people, and federal people, who will continue the prohibition torture regime.

        Hope you’re proud of yourselves. Don’t put your arm out patting yourself on the back.

        * nytimes.com/2014/11/08/opinion/pregnant-and-no-civil-rights.html

        ** opensocietyfoundations.org/voices/states-must-end-abuses-health-care-demands-top-un-expert-torture

        •  

          Seeing as how you’re determined to have an argument with Jetdoc, I’ll just go ahead and let you have an argument with Jetdoc. You’ve once again falsely labeled me a Republican simply because I pointed out math that made you cry.

          I will, however, point out that you never once tried refuting my math, which is all I gave you.

          Nor did you even *attempt* to justify the 20% of self-identified Liberals who voted No on 2. And you never disputed the FACT that 20% would have made the difference for Amendment 2 more than twice over.

          It’s so funny that your defense of the blue team is just more offense against the red team.
          You never learn, Scott.

          The fact of the matter is that ever since you began posting on the Weed Blog, you’ve done almost nothing but play cheerleader for “Progressives” (who just so happen to all be Democrats, plus Bernie Sanders) thinking cannabis advocates are “easy-pickens” despite any/all given evidence. And, once again, I have to step in to remind you that you spend as much time polishing turds and selling them to people as fruit as the red team does.

          568k votes would have been enough to pass Amendment 2 more than twice over.

          568k self-described “liberals” (one in five) voted NO on Amendment 2.

          Oh, look, those two things are STILL true.

          You’re the one who insists on casting things by political distinctions, apparently, for no other reason than to use those distinctions as subject matter in personal rivalries, as you’re once again demonstrated with spectacular brilliance, here, by deliberately attempting to provoke Jetdoc. So if you want to continue playing political cheerleader for the blue team to fuel your ego, fine, but the rule is that you can’t laugh when the other team fumbles if your team ALSO blew the division championship.

          And guess what? In the big Florida game, when it counted the most, the Blue team dropped the ball at least 568 thousand times, one time out of FIVE (at least).

          Again, just to remind you, all I gave you was math, none of which you refuted.

          So I’ll leave you to have your shouting contest with the non-existent Republican with whom you’re *always* arguing on the internet. I’m sure it was that invisible Republican who convinced 20% of Liberals to vote No on 2. So please, continue having your fake argument with the evil Republican you think stole my keyboard.

          OR… You could introduce some much-needed objectivity in your life, Scott, and realize that nobody likes a guy who dresses up a 20% failure rate as an A+, when at best it’s a B-, simply because someone else did worse. Come to think of it, that’s why I stopped identifying with Democrats and Progressives — I forgot how you “progressives” think doing just a little better than Republicans is supposed to be praise-worthy.

          •  

            The BLUE team didn’t drop the ball! They were just out spent!

          •  

            There are only two teams of importance on this particular blog, on this particular article, and they aren’t the Donkeys or the Elephants.

            They are the people who supported Amendment 2 at the ballot box and those who did not. One out of every five self-identifying Liberals who actually turned in a ballot were not on our team. 23% of Crist supporters voted against Amendment 2. And a whopping 29% of self-identified Democrats voted against 2.

            The assertion that “too many” Republicans voted and “too few” Liberals/Democrats voted is patently false. As demonstrated with simple arithmetic, more than enough Liberals/Democrats showed up at the ballot box to pass Amendment 2, they just voted the wrong way. Had only 1 in 6 Liberals voted against Amendment 2 instead of 1 in 5, Amendment 2 would have passed. That’s objectively true.

            Had 1.16 million Republicans *not* shown up to support Amendment 2, it never would have had a chance of passing — Florida requires 60% to pass a ballot initiative, and despite Scott’s fondest wet dreams, there’s no way to get to 60% with *just* the Democrats (especially considering 29% of them voted against Amendment 2).

            The point of this article was to talk about what went wrong in Florida so that we can discuss solutions. Well, I think *all* of us know why so many seniors/conservatives voted against Amendment 2 — everybody has seen Footloose at least once. However, 20% of the Liberal vote went wrong. Very wrong. And refusing to even acknowledge it doesn’t resemble a solution in the slightest.

          •  

            “whopping 29%”

            That is SOOOOO cute. 29% is such a HUGE percent!

            You really like to repeat yourself, don’t you? Well, I can play that game.

            21% of NO votes came from Democrats.

            51% of NO votes came from Republicans.

            You expect 100% of liberals to vote yes, but you ignore the basic political fact that I mentioned above: many Democrats profit from the drug war and many democrats are conservative. Many democrats are old and stubborn, just like many old and stubborn Republicans. To expect us to provide MORE yes votes when we only provided 21% of the NO votes is the kind of disingenuous bullshit that explains why you so vehemently defend the authoritarians, while spending most of your vitriol on the party that OVERWHELMINGLY agrees with you.

            “Well, I think *all* of us know why so many seniors/conservatives voted against Amendment 2 — everybody has seen Footloose at least once. However, 20% of the Liberal vote went wrong. Very wrong. And refusing to even acknowledge it doesn’t resemble a solution in the slightest.”

            You lie so much because the facts just don’t help you blabber on… I have not refused to acknowledge it. Since you admit you don’t read what I write, then it’s really presumptive and bullshitty of you to say that I haven’t acknowledged it when I have.

            Now, if you know anything about the Democratic party, and obviously you don’t, you’d know that we have a conservative wing, especially on the drug issue, just as, apparently, SOME conservatives have a somewhat less right wing view that leads them to vote for the amendment (while simultaneously voting for a torture proponent for Governor). And, as I mentioned above, many Democrats profit from prohibition.

            What’s interesting about your quest for solutions is that you lament the lack of a 100% yes vote from Democrats, while you have absolutely nothing to say about the conservatives for whom you have apologized with a flippant remark about footloose. I am always amazed at the burning desire in Glibertarians to lash out at their libertarian brothers on the left, while defending their authoritarian cousins on the right.

            So, if we’re looking for solutions, I submit that the sponsors of this amendment should stop hoping that a vote on something like this will bring out more liberals in a midterm, and start putting things like this on the ballot during Presidential year when notoriously lazy liberals get off their ass and try to overcome voter suppression efforts and the never ending lust of Republicans for torture and hippie punching.

          •  

            Yes — 29% is a big number, especially when less than half of it would have made the difference. It’s such a pity that you’ve been blowing smoke up our asses for months saying Liberals/Democrats are in our corner, when every three of ten are NOT. You were the one who expected them to vote yes, which is why I keep asking YOU for the explanation as to why they failed to do so.

            Should I go digging for your older comments proselytizing the blog with the Progressive mantra? Didn’t you say something along the lines of “If you want cannabis to pass, vote Progressive” or some similar garbage? Speaking of which, how many blue candidates actually endorsed Amendment 2? Oh, right, NONE OF THEM.

          •  

            ” It’s such a pity that you’ve been blowing smoke up our asses for months saying Liberals/Democrats are in our corner”

            And the lies just keep coming. Show me where I ever said ALL Liberals/Democrats are in our corner (and if you’re in my corner, I’m going to toss your ass in the spit bucket). Show me. GO ahead… I’ll wait.

            I have said time and time again what the actual facts are… And I have mostly spoken about our elected representatives, not the voting public.

            So, honestly, if you want to argue with someone in your imagination, we can get you a room and some lotion…

            Here’s one of my favorites, that I post a lot:

            91% of Dems voted for keeping the DEA out of medicinal programs, only 22% of Republicans did.

            94% of Democrats voted to keep the feds out of pot banking, only 20% of Republicans did.

            See? Facts. Actual numbers based on votes in the House of Representatives. I don’t say ALL liberals are for it. In fact, I have specifically pointed out many times that there is a substantial split between the left and right wings (progressives vs blue dogs) in my party. It is, essentially, a split between authoritarian and libertarian leftists. And the progressives are winning, as, thanks to your friends the Republicans, we weeded out a bunch more Blue Dogs.

            “You were the one who expected them to vote yes”

            Another lie. I expected pretty much this exact split, as that’s what polls have been showing for a while now. You know, the polls that I referenced to prove Jetdoc–who you so desperately want to defend that you resort to lies to do it–was lying.

            “Should I go digging for your older comments proselytizing the blog with the Progressive mantra?”

            Yes. Go ahead.

            “Didn’t you say something along the lines of “If you want cannabis to pass, vote Progressive”

            Yep. I say it all the time. Show me a member of the Congressional Progressive Caucus that votes against reform. There might be a few out of the 76 or so members (that was the last count I remember of the largest caucus on the hill–bigger than the tea party caucus, and a hell of a lot larger than the Libertarian caucus, which, if memory serves, is approximately zero). Maybe one. Possibly zero.

            But if you vote for Republicans, what do you get? How many Republicans are for reform? But the house vote numbers above, if you vote for Democrats, you have a 91 to 94% chance of having a Representative who will vote for reform. If you vote for Republicans, you have a 20 to 22% chance.

            And that is all I ever said.

            So, honestly, when you have to lie so much to try to argue with me, we can all see how sad and hopeless your position is.

            Oh, look. Another lie…

            “Speaking of which, how many blue candidates actually endorsed Amendment 2? Oh, right, NONE OF THEM.”

            When you just spit shit like that out, when it’s so easy to check it, it proves you prefer bullshit to actual research.

            http://ballotpedia.org/Florida_Right_to_Medical_Marijuana_Initiative,_Amendment_2_(2014)

            >>

            Supporters

            Officials

            Sen. Jeff Clemens (D-27)[13]

            Sen. Oscar Braynon (D-36)[14]

            Rep. Dave Kerner (D-87)[15]

            Rep. Katie Edwards (D-98)[16]

            Alan Clendenin, vice chairperson of the Florida Democratic Party[17]

            Former officials

            Former Gov. Charlie Crist (D), 2014 gubernatorial candidate

            Former Rep. George Sheldon (D-69), 2014 Attorney General candidate[18]

            Former Sen. Nan Rich (D-34)[19]

            <<

          •  

            LOL. Nice try — more subject changes and distraction attempts.

            So I’ll ask again, a 60th time. Explain why 20% of self-identified LIBERAL voters (at least 568,000 voters) who showed up at the ballot box voted NO on Amendment 2. And please, as always, keep in mind Amendment 2 only needed 250k votes to pass.

            Also, keep in mind the distinction of “liberal” was not arbitrarily assigned to them by criteria defined by you, Scott — these were self-described Liberals. So attempting to blend them into a nebulous category comprised of pro-union cops and prison guards won’t work unless you can prove they describe themselves as “Liberal.”

          •  

            “more subject changes and distraction attempts.”

            How is directly answering your question a change of subject?

            “self-described Liberals”

            Yep. Authoritarian and Libertarian liberals. Just like the split with conservatives that you so desperately want to defend… Speaking of which, this was all about Jetdoc’s lies.

            And you accuse me of changing the subject.

            It’s also, now, about your lies. I never said ALL democrats support reform. In fact, I’ve specifically, many times, said the blue dogs are being weeded out.

            ANd yet you insist on wasting our time be ignoring all that only to lie some more.

            “pro-union cops and prison guards won’t work unless you can prove they describe themselves as “Liberal.””

            Cops and prison guards, like pot dealers in the black market, generally describe themselves as liberal, or Democrat, because they are union members. However, they are also authoritarian drug warriers who profit from prohibition. This is a very easy concept and your disingenuous on the matter is both astounding and boring.

            A majority of union members in this country vote for Democrats. This is such a basic fact of American politics that I can’t believe I’m wasting my time explaining it to some idiot Glibertarian who has to lie to argue with me.

            And how about that list of supporters, huh? All with D’s after their names. I don’t see many R’s there… But it’s funny, you told me there were NONE.

            And then you drop that subject, and accuse me of dropping subjects.

            What a pitiful joke you are.

          •  

            And I’ve already point out how I was mistaken — that 4 of 120 blue candidates for local Florida districts did, indeed endorse Amendment 2. I also pointed out how I was actually only thinking of the 27 blue candidates for US Congress, and that my mistake allowed you to have one extraordinarily small victory.

            Indeed, all of FOUR people (and Charlie Crist) endorsed it, out of at least 148 candidates. I was wrong. It wasn’t 0%, it was about 3% — what a victory for you. That means only 97% of the liberal candidates were spineless, bet-hedging cowards. I need to send another thank you note to Jeff Clemens. He authored the Cathie Jordan MMJ bill several years ago, and I feel bad for implying he did not endorse Amendment 2, even by mistake.

            So let me ask about the VOTERS again, now that we’re done discussing how useless your candidates were. Explain why 20% of self-identified LIBERAL democrats (at least 568,000 voters) who turned up at the ballot box voted NO on Amendment 2. And please, as always, keep in mind Amendment 2 only needed 250k votes to pass.

            But this time, no more sleight of hand by attempting to prescribe how cops, prison guards, and… …drug dealers…? ….describe themselves on ballot surveys. You have as much access to their thoughts and perceptions as you do to mine (which is why you were not capable of knowing what I have and have not read, btw — it’s so sad I have to point that out). You’re going to do it again, of course, but I thought I should at least *try* to encourage you to be less fallacious.

          •  

            WOW — Let’s just look at what you’ve said here. You’re trying to explain why 1 out of FIVE liberal voters voted against Amendment 2 by just going deeper and deeper into labels you’ve INVENTED for convenience.

            “Libertarian Liberals” — We’ve discussed these caspers, before, but let’s just pretend you CAN name a few that exist. For your label to work, you’ll have to find evidence that there are Libertarians who both describe themselves as “liberal” while simultaneously NOT supporting cannabis law reform. Good luck with that.

            As for “Authoritarian Liberals,” I really only need to point out how you invented this one and once again shift the burden of proof onto you to produce at least one actual person who describes themselves this way, or perhaps just one person who is described in this way by someone besides you, Scott. So get cracking. Just keep in mind that the question I ask you next will be “how many are in Florida, and where is your proof?”

            I think I’m being very gracious by even entertaining these weird labels you’ve arbitrarily duct taped together, honestly. I only asked you to find one or two, as if that would explain the 568,000 Liberals who voted against Amendment 2.

            So I’ll ask again, a 137th time. Explain why 20% of self-identified LIBERALS (at least 568,000 voters) who turned up at the ballot box voted NO on Amendment 2. And please, as always, keep in mind Amendment 2 only needed 250k votes to pass. And this time, no more inventing categories of liberals without any evidence, ok?

          •  

            “Seeing as how you’re determined to have an argument with Jetdoc, I’ll just go ahead and let you have an argument with Jetdoc.”

            And then you proceed with paragraphs of the same crap I just answered… So, I think I’ll keep arguing with you.

            “You’ve once again falsely labeled me a Republican simply because I pointed out math that made you cry.”

            You wish. Honestly, your bloated sense of the power you have over me is hilarious. First you call me jubilant (a lie I called you out on that you now ignore). Then you claim to have made me cry. Another lie to make you feel better about yourself. But if you’re not a Republican, I wonder… how often do you vote for them?

            But let’s look at the math… first, percentages. 60% of the party you continue to defend voted against medicinal. Only 20% of the party I defend does. Considering how many more Republicans voted than Democrats, I’d say you’re the one with the math problem.

            But wait! There’s more!

            “And you never disputed the FACT that 20% would have made the difference for Amendment 2 more than twice over. ”

            Why would I dispute it? Hell, I specifically said that I can’t stand the conservative Democrats (who, thanks to the Republicans you love to defend, lost big time while Progressives did not). But 29% is a very low percentage compared to the 60% of your friends. How many times over would the 60% of Republicans have made the margin of victory?

            If you’re going to bitch at a group for voting the wrong way here, which one would give you the most bang for your bitch?

            “It’s so funny that your defense of the blue team is just more offense against the red team.

            You never learn, Scott.”

            Oh, I learn… whatever your name is… I’ve spent years watching the side you defend be wrong on just about every damn thing in the book. All those things I mentioned above AND MORE, and they never pay a price for it. Hell, you won’t even acknowledge it.

            And a perfect example of that was my original point, which you have avoided: that Jetdoc specifically said that polls show a majority of Republicans now support legalization. They don’t. In fact, not even a majority favors medicinal. He lied.

            And you’re fine with that.

            “The fact of the matter is that ever since you’ve began posting on the Weed Blog, you’ve done nothing but cheerlead for “Progressives” (who just so happen to all be Democrats, plus Bernie Sanders). All I have done is remind you, once again, that you spend as much time polishing turds and selling them to people as fruit precisely the same way the red team does.”

            They may be turds to you, but polls consistently show majority support for a wide range of progressive issues from civil liberties to public investment. They might not call themselves progressives, since people like you have invested so much time in calling them turds, but they sure are liberal on the issues.

            “568k votes would have been enough to pass Amendment 2 more than twice over.”

            Again: how many Republicans voted against it? How many times over could they have passed the amendment if just, say, half of the Republicans who voted against it voted for it?

            “You’re the one who insists on casting things by party, apparently, for no other reason than to use as subject matter in personal rivalries”

            You honestly think that it’s personal rivalries that drive me? Dude, I just read a NY Times article on the civil rights violations of pregnant women, including women being arrested and held for a year on suspicion of fetal homicide only to find out it was a miscarriage. They force women to have C sections, at least one of whom died from it. It pissed me off so much I wanted to go down to the closest abortion protesters and get in their faces with the facts. I don’t give a shit who they are, I give a shit what they stand for.

            “sheople”

            Oh, look! Glibertarian code word! Did you vote for the Glibertarian for governor? How many votes did that person get? Had you all voted for Christ, would you have gotten a governor who is against torture?

            What is the issue that stops you from voting for Progressives, since you agree with them on Civil Liberties? Guns? Abortion? Taxes on the rich?

            “the rule is that you can’t laugh when the other team fumbles if your team ALSO blew the division championship.”

            Wow. Now I know you’re a Glibertarian. Only a glib would be so disingenous. Only 29% of my side vote against the amendment and you want to blame us for the loss, when 60%–a MUCH BIGGER RAW NUMBER–from your side is really the most to blame?

            “all I gave you was math, none of which you refuted”

            REFUTE IT? Why would I do that? The Blue team got 71 FREAKING PERCENT to vote the right way, while the RED team, the team you love so much and yet still won’t call yourself part of, GOT 40%. I’d say my team did TWICE as well as the one you so want to NOT be called a part of, despite your continued defense thereof.

            And, as you pointed out, if we just look at the LIBERAL vote, it’s 20%. Really seems like conservatives are the problem here, not the liberals.

            “Maybe Jetdoc will forget who you a re and agree to fill that particular void in your life.”

            Always gotta make it personal when you got nuthin’ else, HUH? The void in my life is created by the torturers who deny me medicine, and the people who vote for the authoritarians who keep it that way.

            And maybe I should remind you that you promised not to talk to me anymore. Bet you forgot that, didn’t you?

            Now, since you are refusing to refute the obvious math problem you have… I’ll do it for you.

            First off, Crist got 2,795,263 votes, not the 2.84 million votes you claimed. Scott got 2,861,390. So, a Scott victory of 66127 votes. I see the Glibertarian got 222,878 votes. If only 30% of Glibs had voted for Crist, you’d have a governor who’s anti-torture, instead of pro-torture. So, who fumbled there?

            Next, 35% of the total voters were Republican (from the NBC exit poll linked in the story). 35% of 6,026,093 is 2,109,132. 60% of them voted No on 2, or 1,265,479, WAY MORE THAN TWICE AS MANY AS NEEDED TO PASS the amendment.

            So, to you, the team that deserves the most derision is the team with almost a THIRD of the no votes as the team you want to defend?

            And you tell me I have a math problem?

            30% of the voters identified as Democrats. 30% of 6,026,093 is 1,807,827. 29% of them voted no. That’s 524,270 Democrats who voted no.

            2,476,108 total no votes. So, 21% of the no votes were from Democrats.

            35% identified as Republicans. That’s 2,109,132 Republicans voting, and 60% of them voted no on 2. That’s 1,265,479 Republicans voting no. So, 51% of the no votes were from Republicans.

            And you want to bitch about the Democrats.

            Finally, the real point of this whole exercise was that you want to defend your friend who lied. It’s funny how Glibertarians seem to mostly defend Republicans and attack liberals… But the whole point was that he lied. He lied many times by claiming that a majority of Republicans are for legalization, when, as we can plainly see, a majority of them are against MEDICINAL. We’re not even talking legalization. So, Jetdoc lied. And in your Glib world, he doesn’t even deserve ridicule for being so horribly wrong.

            But it’s even worse than that. The most recent Gallup poll shows support for legalization has actually dropped.

            http://www.gallup.com/poll/179195/majority-continues-support-pot-legalization.aspx

            “Currently, 64% of Americans who identify as or lean Democratic side with legalization, compared with 39% of Republicans.”

            So, don’t you think your buddy Jetdoc deserves to be called out for blatantly lying about a majority of his party being for legalization?

            Or do you think people should just be able to bullshit with no consequences?

          •  

            What’s funny is that I *do* have power over you, Scott. Otherwise, you wouldn’t still be hanging around here supposedly trying to recruit “Progressives.” It’s so entertaining watching you verbally flail about because you cannot refute a word I say, and it eats you up.

            Watch, I’ll do it again.

            Liberals were the failure point for Florida’s Amendment 2, considering (at least) one in five failed to support the measure, when it would have passed if only 1 in 6 Liberals were heartless and/or brainless instead of a whopping 20-29%.

            And I’d like to issue yet another warm THANK YOU to the 1.16 million Republicans who supported Amendment 2, who Scott wishes did not exist, but do, in demonstrably large numbers. Thank all that is good and pure in the universe that we have so many compassionate Republican voters to ruin Scott’s rose-tinted view of the Democrats whose feet Scott kisses on a nightly basis.

            Where would we be without Democrats to show us how being spineless, capitulating pushovers can rake in 47.1% of the electorate? Frankly, Progressives should be thanking Republicans for sticking around. Otherwise, Progressives would just look silly waiving white flags at nobody.

            But honestly, what I love most about you Scott is that you absolutely fall over yourself at the opportunity to defend a political party that is charitably called the lesser of two evils. I mean, with rabidly deluded robo-supporters like yourself, why would Democrats (or Republicans) *need* to try for better? You’re so anxious to defend the status-quo, there’s no need to actually change anything. You, Scott, are the ideal puppet citizen — unquestioningly loyal and 100% convinced your self-righteous outlook is correct.

            Really, that’s the reason I’m *still* smiling as I begin this passage. I know with absolute certainty that, even now, you’re sitting there trying to think of every nasty thing you can say…. ….about Republicans. Because (a) you believe that will somehow upset me, despite me telling you at least five times I am not a Republican, and (b) that’s all you can do to defend your merry band of wimps: point fingers *elsewhere* so that your boys look better “relatively speaking.”

            It tickles me that, even now, you *still* don’t get it. You’re doubtlessly going to give me another laundry list about Republicans that I’m not going to read, all because I told you things about Liberals and Democrats you *couldn’t* address in any other way. You can’t even say that there weren’t enough Liberals, as I’ve already shown you — twice — that there were plenty of them who turned out. They simply voted AGAINST the initiative. The fact that 3 in 5 Republicans didn’t support Amendment 2 doesn’t change (or explain) the fact that 1 in 5 Liberals didn’t support it, either.

            There inlays the key detail that upsets you so much, Scott. People understand perfectly how/why seniors and social conservatives opposed Amendment 2. Being stubborn and closed-minded is a defining characteristic for those two groups (circa Footloose). Explaining that is a no-brainer. However, I believe what bothers you is that, despite all your constant blathering to the contrary, Democrats (to the tune of 29%) did not support medical cannabis, and you have NO explanation that actually pertains to DEMOCRATS. You’re incapable of producing one without somehow trying to make it about Republicans.

            You have 568 thousand votes (at least) that don’t jive with the progressive fairy-tale you’ve been shoveling. Well come on, Scott! Give it the old college try. Tell me why 20-29% of the guys you grab ankle for didn’t do exactly what you said they would do, but try to do so *without* framing it in the context of something Republicans did that was worse.

            I dare you. I double-dog dare you, Scott. Show me just a SHRED of intellectual integrity.

            It entertains me so much picturing you sitting there, struggling to think of ways to defend your beloved “progressives” without framing your response in terms of Republicans. I’m sure your mind keeps wandering back to how much you hate Republicans over and over and over. You can’t control it, can you? You’re probably so far gone that you wake up screaming in the middle of the night because you believe Rush Limbaugh is there trying to steal your blankets.

            Wait, what was that? The partisan hack can’t explain why hundreds of thousands of Liberals voted contrary to his rhetorical puffery? You mean Liberals and Democrats are NOT universally in our corner? You mean every progressive candidate in Florida who didn’t endorse the initiative was a bet-hedging COWARD who robbed Amendment 2 of a long, hard-fought victory?

            GASP!!! I guess Democrats and Liberals aren’t the champions of cannabis law reform Scott said they are! I’m so shocked, I may fall asleep with surprise.

            Progressives: history’s ostensible heroes. I’d say they’re a joke, but it’s just sad, not funny.

          •  

            Well, look at this long, glib tirade in which you, yey again, completely avoid the whole damn point, which is that Jetdoc lied. Flat out, Iraq war, tax cuts pay for themselves, abstinence only programs prevent teen pregnancy LIED, and you are just fine with that.

            Not one word on point.

            > What’s funny is that I *do* have power over you, Scott. Otherwise, you wouldn’t still be hanging around here trying to recruit “Progressives.”

            Doesn’t follow logically. The fact that I’m still here, in a weed blog, trying to get people to vote for the side that will give them A MUCH BETTER CHANCE of having less prohibition has absolutely nothing to do with you. I know it’s probably hard for you to accept that it’s not all about you, being so glib and all, but it’s true. I’d be here, doing the same thing, even if you weren’t here.

            > Liberals were the failure point for Florida’s Amendment 2, considering (at least) one in five failed to support the measure, and it would have passed if only 1 in 6 were heartless/brainless.

            Watch… I’ll do it again. Conservatives were the failure point of Amendment two, since 60% of them voted against it, and that 60% is a raw number that is almost THREE FREAKING TIMES the number of liberals who voted against it.

            So, what we have here is yet another example that Glibertarians and Republicans can’t do math…

            1,265,479 Republicans voted no.

            524,270 Democrats voted no.

            To you, 1.2 million is less than 524k.

            Genius.

            “And I’d like to issue yet another warm THANK YOU to the 1.16 million Republicans who supported Amendment 2, who Scott wishes did not exist, but do, in demonstrably large numbers. ”

            Again you put words in my mouth. I’m quite happy that a minority of conservatives voted for the amendment and then turned around and voted for a governor who is against it. More Genius.

            What’s also not shocking is that you avoided the fact that the glibertarian gubnatorial vote was MORE than enough to get Crist elected. So, good luck with your compassionate governor there, whatever your name is.

            “Thank god almighty we have Republicans around to ruin Scott’s rose-tinted view of the Democrats whose feet Scott l icks on a nightly basis”

            Well, if you’d been paying attention to what I say, you’d see that I’m quite angry with liberals that don’t vote AND even more angry with voter supression, purges, and all the other bullshit your Republican friends do to keep liberals from voting, all of which you’re fine with, since Glibertarians really don’t care for democracy, and would prefer authoritarians to civil libertarians for some reason they’re always afraid to admit.

            “Where would we be without Democrats to show us how being spineless, capitulating weaklings can rake in 47.1% of the electorate. Frankly, Progressives should be thanking Republicans for sticking around — otherwise, Progressives would just look silly waiving white flags at nobody.”

            And here we have you committing another logical fallacy. Progressives, a faction of the Democratic party, actually did quite well AND showed up. It was the blue dogs, especially southern Democrats, who didn’t show up. But you just keep lumping the two kinds of democrats together, despite the facts, because like your Republican friend Jetdoc, you don’t give a shit about facts.

            “what I love most about you Scott is that you absolutely fall over yourself at the opportunity to defend a political party that charitably can be called the lesser of two evils.”

            Fall over myself? Funny how you just keep making stuff up. I’m the one who presents facts that you fall all over yourself to ignore in order to attack me personally. It’s really quite telling, and certainly explains why you’re too chicken to use your real name.

            It’s not charitable to admit that this moderate President hasn’t lied us into any TWO TRILLION BORROWED DOLLARS wars, or crashed the economy. Further, it’s not charitable to admit that the party that overwhelmingly votes pro-weed is a lesser evil than the party that overwhelmingly votes against it.

            But you keep making stuff up. It’s so cute.

            “I mean, with rabidly deluded robo-supporters like yourself, why would Democrats *need* to try for better? ”

            How am I deluded? How am I rabidly deluded? How am I a robo-supporter? None of those terms apply. I have spent years helping get blue dogs out of my party and replacing them with progressives. I can’t stand conservatives, no matter which side of the aisle they’re on. There’s nothing deluded about ridding the authoritarians from my party. There’s nothing deluded about the fact that my party, especially the progressive wing of my party, is the party of common sense when it comes to prohibition. The fact that almost 1/3 less of them than Republicans voted no on this amendment certainly proves that to anyone who can do math and doesn’t have an agenda of lashing out because no one will vote for his pitiful little third party spoilers.

            “You’re so anxious to defend the status-quo, there’s no need to actually change anything. ”

            The status quo is a right wing House, a right wing Senate, and a moderate Democrat for President. I would like to change ALL that. But certain blocks of voters who you defend want to keep this country leaning to the right. Maybe you should get mad at them? Oh, wait.. you LIKE them.

            “You, Scott, are the ideal puppet citizen. ”

            Another tell. While Sheeple, or Sheople, is the biggest Glib tell, “puppet citizen” is right up there. But what’s funny is that your brain can’t accept the fact that a great many Americans like me look at the issues and find that our best bet to represent our political philosophy is Democrats. You might not like it for some reason (which you won’t say… guns, abortion, tax cuts for the rich…), but the fact is that we look at our choices, and vote the way we think best reflects our values. You want to think we’re just ignorant (compared to you, at least, OH GREAT ONE), but the fact is that we actually think about things like less war, less prohibition, more civil liberties, and then we see that no one else, not Glibs, not Republicans, not Constiutional Party wingnuts, NO ONE represents us as well as the Democrats. It’s not always a perfect fit, but it’s a hell of a lot better than the authoritarians you defend so vehemently.

            “you’re sitting there trying to think of every nasty thing you can say”

            Pot, kettle… but, no, I don’t have to really think about it. I’ve been doing it for so long that it just flows out naturally. Nothing like 8 years of baby Bush and Bandar Bush to hone that skill.

            “Because that’s all you can do to defend your merry band of wimps”

            I don’t defend the wimps. I can’t stand the Democrats (blue dogs) who ran away from their accomplishments. I support the ones who stand up for what they stand for.

            “point fingers *elsewhere* so that your boys look better “relatively speaking.” ”

            And what’s wrong with that? We do look better, relatively speaking. We especially look better compared to the John C. Calhoons of the modern era, like your party.

            “you *still* don’t get it. ”

            Get what? That you’re a glib prick who does’t read what I say because you just don’t care about facts, or telling the truth?

            “You’re going to give me another laundry list about Republicans that I’m not going to read”

            So, you admit you don’t read what I write?

            “all because I told you things about Liberals and Democrats you *couldn’t* address in any other way.”

            What did you tell me? All I see is bullshit and avoidance.

            “You can’t even say that there weren’t enough Liberals,”

            How do you know what I said if you admit you didn’t read it? Liberals are famously lazy in midterms (especially young people). This isn’t new. Add in the purging and voters supression and it’s old news that liberals show up in smaller numbers in non-Presidential years. What, are you new? This is all the more reason for conservatives who want to vote for compassion to show up. Where were they? Because what I see, what I’ve SHOWN YOU TWICE, is that almost THREE TIMES as many conservatives voted for torture as liberals.

            Now, I’ve addressed your point twice, and you say I’ve ignored it twice. I’ve made my point twice, and you’ve ignored it twice.

            “The fact that 3 in 5 Republicans didn’t support Amendment 2 doesn’t change the fact that 1 in 5 Liberals didn’t support Amendment 2.”

            Did I say it did? Honestly. You expect liberals to vote 100% for it, but you don’t expect conservatives to even get to 50/50?

            Here’s what I said, that you IGNORED:

            “21% of the no votes were from Democrats”

            Got that? I will accept 21% of the blame.

            “51% of the no votes were from Republicans.”

            Now, will you admit that since over half the no votes were from Republicans then they were MOSTLY responsible?

            I won’t hold my breath.

            “Democrats (to the tune of 29%) did not support medical cannabis, and you have NO explanation that actually pertains to DEMOCRATS. ”

            I don’t know why I bother if you’re not going to read what I say… I have directly responded to this already, but here, let me go a little more in depth.

            We’re talking Florida here. Long history of drug warriers. Lots of liberal cops, lawyers, judges, prision guards, people who vote Democrat but who profit from the drug war. It is to be expected that they will vote in a way that they are used to voting. Many of them are also old, stubborn, and closed minded. This is the SOUTH for Chrissake. A substantial portion of them vote for conservatives occasionally. But even these conservative Democrats have been changing their mind on this issue faster than Republicans have. The fact that only 21% of the total no votes came from Democrats shows that that side of the Democratic party is shrinking. And it is shrinking much faster than the Republicans’ share of torture lovers.

            “I dare you. I double-dog dare you, Scott.”

            How childish. Are you unaware of the conservative side of the Democratic party? Perhaps the fact that the Republicans no longer have a moderate faction has confused you into thinking that the Democrats no longer have one?

            “It entertains me so much picturing you sitting there trying to think of ways to defend your beloved “progressives” without trying to frame your response in terms of Republicans”

            I’m not entertained at the thought of you sitting their making shit up about me. I don’t have to think of ways to frame my response. I have said (and since you don’t read what I say, you wouldn’t know that) that progressives need to do a better job of getting our people to the polls. We need to encourage young people to get involved. This is hard to do when people like you, who should otherwise BE one of us if it weren’t for some issue on which you agree with the authoritarians more, constantly tell people that if they do vote for Progressives, they’re just sheeple, or robo-voters, or ignorant shits who aren’t smart enough to vote for the federal nullification bullshit that you glibs vote for. If you really cared about weed, you’d encourage the people who will vote to end prohibition to vote, but for some reason that you STILL WON’T SAY, you don’t want progressives to vote. You ridicule them for being brainless because we vote for a party that, despite its MUCH BETTER RECORD on civil rights, you just can’t stand. For some reason. That you’re too chicken shit to admit.

            “I’m sure your mind just keeps going back to how much you hate them over and over”

            Oh, hell no. I got over that after the 3000th or so soldier died in Iraq.

            ” you can’t even control it, can you? ”

            Again, my hatred for warmongering, civil liberty destroying, birth-forcing, gun-toting, economy wrecking authoritarians is packed away in a little corner of my brain where I keep it to remember important things, like the wars and economic disasters, but where it can’t damage the good time I’m having in my life. I decided a long time ago that I wasn’t going to let a bunch of Bush lovers screw up my good time on this planet. They screw up enough already.

            And you’re fine with that.

            “You wake up screaming in the middle of the night because you’re scared Rush Lim baugh is trying to steal your blankets.”

            Who? Oh, that guy… who’s ratings are slipping… No, I love that guy. I argue with my fellow progressives all the time that we should do everything we can to keep that wingnut talking. Hell, if I were rich, I’d pay to have him, Louis Gohmert, and Michelle Bachman go on a speaking tour of swing states!

            Now, if you’re not going to respond to the TWO BIG POINTS HERE, then what’s the point other than you exercising your authoritarian feces covered fingers?

            One: Jetdoc lied. He said a majority of conservatives now support leglaization. I showed the poll that proves that’s not true, and this vote in FL shows that at least in FL, conservatives don’t even support medicinal.

            Two: 29% of the no votes were from Democrats. 51% of the no votes were from Republicans. Which side deserves most of the blame? Surely even a Glibertarian can do that math.

          •  

            LOL. Oh look, you did *precisely* what I said you would do! I once again have a laundry list of Republican no-no’s instead of an explanation for why 29% of Democrats voted against Amendment 2.

            Wow, Scott. I mean, WOW. In the past, when I’ve told you *exactly* what you were going to do and why you shouldn’t do it, at least half the time, it sunk in deeply enough so that you could rub those two neurons together and spur the decision to NOT do it. That’s not the case here.

            You’re so predictable, it’s pathetic.

            All hail the progressive gish-galloper in all his glory. He enjoys mopping up progressive jizz with his tongue once every two years because they tell him it’s salty yogurt.

            Fact is, Jetdoc has nothing that needs explaining as I’ve pointed out at least four times, now. You, however, have been talking a lot of talk about Liberals and Progressives and Democrats supporting cannabis law reform. And if they hadn’t been the weak link in the Amendment 2 campaign, I’d probably let you continue with your delusions.

            But not this time.

            This time, your little clubhouse of spineless cowards cost us dearly, so I’m done playing nice with you, Scott. From now on, I will always be here to remind you how Liberals cost Florida the Amendment 2 campaign.

      •  

        ..

        •  

          I did not give a free pass to the 60% of seniors/conservatives who voted No. However, we already know WHY that group voted against Amendment 2. Being crotchety, stubborn, and closed-minded is one of their defining characteristics. We know why 60% of that particular demographic didn’t support us in Florida.

          Ever since Scott Supak started posting on this blog, he’s done nothing but attack people he arbitrarily labels by political party. He lionizes everything the left does and refuses to give credit where credit is due. Just look at his post! He’s *happy* Amendment 2 failed just so he could throw it in Jetdoc’s face.

          Amendment 2 failed needing only 250k votes. if you want to discuss how/why Amendment 2 failed, then turning a blind eye to 29% of Democrats voting against Amendment 2 is negligent, to say the least. That would have been more than enough to pass Amendment 2. Scott, their biggest cheerleader, has been saying Liberals and Progressives are in our corner, but has NO explanation to give as to why 29% of “his boys” were against us — it wasn’t that they stayed home, they voted *the wrong way*. I’d like to know why.

          If you listen to Scott, the only people we have to blame are the 60% of seniors/conservatives who voted against it, which implicitly ignores the 1.16 million Republicans who DID support Amendment 2. So if we’re going to lay blame, Democrats aren’t as pure as the driven snow, in this case — not even slightly. 29% is too much to ignore.

          We almost won because we managed to convince over a million Republicans to vote with us. However, we lost because Scott (and those like him) had us believe the Liberal vote was in the bag. That wasn’t the case. And instead of owning up to it, all he can do is point fingers in the *other* direction where we already know what went wrong — they’re old, cantankerous, REPUBLICANS. The fact that we convinced so many of them astounds me!

          We have over 1.16 million of them to thank for turning out on our side of this issue, but in Scott’s world, we have to lump them in with the Republicans who did not, categorically, while continuing to pretend Liberals/Progressives are categorically on our side — neither of which is true.

          •  

            I think it’s great when Republicans, Democrats, and anyone else comes around to our side. But one cannot ignore the gaping disparity in support among liberals/moderates vs. conservatives, and democrats/independents vs. republicans. There is a problem in conservative America when it comes to wanting to punish people for cannabis, and that problem is much bigger among them than it is with liberals or moderates, and to not acknowledge this situation will result in our side losing elections, or in politicians getting elected who are hostile to our cause, such as just happened in MA, where the GOP governor-elect vowed to “aggressively oppose” legal cannabis. Congratulations on your choice of governor, MA voters, now live with the consequences for the next 4 years.

            The exit polling from Oregon is instructive in making this point. Here are some of the cross-tabs from exit polling on measure 91.

            Vote by party ID (%Yes/%No): Dem: 77/23, Ind: 61/39, Rep: 20/80.
            Vote by ideology: Lib: 84/16, Mod: 57/43, Con: 25/75.

            The only party where support is less than a commanding majority is among Republicans, where it is only 20%! Only twenty percent of this cohort thinks we should stop punishing cannabis users?! The only ideology where support was less than a commanding majority was among conservatives, where it was only 25%! If there is anyone who is holding our movement back, it is predominantly conservative republicans. Sure, there are individuals in each group who are exceptions, but as a rule, conservative republicans are staunchly opposed to legal cannabis, and thus continue to favor punishing people for using cannabis. Thus, also by simple percentages, the more conservative republicans we elect to office, on average, the more hostile our politicians will be to reform. What this means numerically is the following. According to the exit poll, the Oregon electorate was 34% dem, 25% rep, and 41% ind. With those percentages, we get:

            0.34*77 + 0.25*20 + 0.41*61 = 56.19% yes = measure passes.

            If we reverse the turnout levels for repubs and independents, we get:

            0.34*77 + 0.41*20 + 0.25*61 = 49.63% yes = measure fails.

            That’s the simple math that Scott and I are talking about. The redder the electorate, the worse cannabis reform does. Similarly, the redder the legislative body, the harder it is to enact reform.

            I would love to see a greater share of conservatives come on board. When that happens, legalization will quickly happen on a national level, and not until then, or alternatively, until enough prohibitionist pols are defeated and replaced with reformers. Most of the prohibitionists are Republicans, and that is beyond dispute. I will change my view of conservatives and republicans in general on this issue when they start to change their own views. Some people will never change their view, and if we are to win, we simply must turn out in greater numbers. In my experience, it is easier to remind 10 democrats to vote, and have 8 of them vote for reform, than it is to convince one die-hard Fox-news watching conservative to change their mind about cannabis. Some are coming around, such as Grover Norquist and possibly Rand Paul, and if they can’t persuade their fellow conservatives, then someone like me has no chance at doing so.

            It is a simple question of the most efficient allocation of resources if we want to win: do we work to turn out our supporters, and if so, we know what those supporters generally “look like” demographically, or do we spend a lot of time trying to change the minds of bigots who will always oppose us? And yes, I’m talking about bigots of all political stripes with respect to cannabis, but I have shown you the data as far as which persuasion has the largest problem with said bigots, and it’s not democrats or independents, and it’s not liberals or moderates.

            That said, I want to welcome anyone who supports our cause to the movement, regardless of political persuasion.

          •  

            Likewise, we need to take a whole-picture view of what happened in Florida the same way you broke down Oregon so that we know precisely what the political landscape is.

            The fact of the matter is that I’m sick and tired of Democrats elected to office pulling a muscle patting themselves on the back just for being a little better than the Republican lawmakers on the other side of the aisle, because those jerks just keep lowering the bar every year for what Democrats will put up with. The average Democrat elected to Congress would look at the 3/5’s Compromise as if it were a GOOD deal, and I’m not going to pretend they’re our only hope for sanity just because Republicans suck even worse.

            The reason I’ve been giving Scott such a hard time is because he (and everyone else, apparently) needs to understand that kissing Democrat ass for doing the bare minimum will allow the drug war to drag on almost indefinitely. Out of the 27 Democrats running for US Congress in Florida, the 120 Democrats running for the state legislature, and the all the Democrats running for the governor’s office, only FIVE Democrats in total voiced their support for Amendment 2. That’s less than 3% of their total state delegation. Subsequently, 29% of self-identified Democrat voters said NO to Amendment 2. 29% of the 47.1% who voted for Charlie Crist equals 823k people.

            Had the Democrats running for office in Florida endorsed the measure as part of their official slate, maybe at least 250k of those 823k Democrat voters would have said yes on 2, and it would have passed. And since everyone enjoys putting everything in the context of Republicans when I talk exclusively about Democrats, I’d like to point out that many of the Republican candidates spoke out against Amendment 2, specifically. Every official webpage for Florida GOP groups that I can find denounced the measure. But despite that onslaught of GOP endorsed propaganda, 40% of self-identified Republican voters still supported Amendment 2. That’s not something we should ignore among the finger-pointing, no matter what Scott says.

            All I’ve done is stick up for the Republican VOTERS who showed up for Amendment 2 in the face of blind, sheep politics. Everyone knows Republican lawmakers can suck eggs on every issue — that was never who I was defending. I make a distinction between people who were lied to and the ones who do the lying. 1.16 million Republican voters realized they had been lied to about cannabis. Those people are on our side, so ignoring their contribution in favor of demonizing them all, categorically — that’s not just heartless, it fantastically dumb.

            Florida needs 60% to pass a ballot initiative, and I’m sorry, but even if Democrats got all 823k of their constituents who voted No on 2 to support the Amendment — even if all 823k of them voted Yes, instead — Amendment 2 would not have passed without at least SOME of the 1.16 million Republican voters who also supported it.

            And it will be the same way in 2016. Even if more Democrat voters turnout in general election years, if 29% of them vote the wrong way, there’s no chance of getting to 60% of the total Florida electorate without the same Republican voters who turned out this year. Florida is not a dark blue state, not even in a general election year, so being partisan douches about who did and did not show up (ignoring one side entirely for sucking slightly less than the other side) it’s going to be yet another uphill battle in 2016.

            That’s the nugget of truth I’m dragging Scott (and apparently everyone else) towards. Florida’s turnout demographics shows everyone two things: Republicans can vote the right way (despite their candidates), and Democrats can vote the wrong way (despite common sense). The fact of the matter is that I truly believe that Amendment 2 would have passed if the Democrat candidates had added it to the slate — that’s the only explanation I can come up with, which means it’s probably the furthest thing from Scott’s mind, because to him, Democrats walk on water.

            If we’re going to end the drug war in our lifetimes, at some point, incumbents and incoming candidates have to voice their support and be willing to engage their constituency about it. We can’t just pick the side that sucks the least — not the way politics in this country have become. That might work in Oregon, the land of Hipsters, but in Georgia, not so much. Our only hope is to end the partisan bickering before it starts, while Scott’s only mission seems to be encouraging that bickering — or do you approve of his deliberate attempts at baiting Jetdoc? Because I certainly do not.

            Jetdoc is on our side. Scott needs to stop being an asshole simply because Jetdoc doesn’t lap up the same gruel Scott does. Allowing rabidly partisan people like Scott to frame the issue of cannabis law reform and ending the drug war at large as a BLUE vs RED issue is an incredibly terrible mistake. Going partisan hasn’t worked for gun control, clean energy, or gay marriage. It won’t work for us, either. As you can see, Scott revels in polarizing people in exactly that fashion. IT. DOES. NOT. HELP.

  3.  

    This Anti crowd is mainly bible thumpers that cross into several of these groups.

  4.  

    the whole point is to get more votes on your side. the young people in Miami did NOT show up to vote. THEY are the problem.

    •  

      The Problem was WE WERE TO NICE TO OUR ENEMY !!! We should of Posted Deaths of Pills and People Killing people for Pills and then show what happens to people that smoke Pot ! So John Morgan was not ready and maybe some of the Spanish Didn’t understand English to vote so they don’t really care. Even though they would make millions

      •  

        Yeah and everybody knows who has the most pills. Sick old people. F-ing idiots are too senile to know they have a huge target on their backs.

  5.  

    It’s just a matter of time. There are so many people in Florida who could benefit from medical cannabis.

  6.  

    It is probably easier to persuade more young people and self-identified liberals and independent voters to go to the polls than to sway people who are already polarized against you. With numbers like those, advocates probably don’t even have to talk about weed—get young people, liberals and independents to show up to midterm elections and they’ll probably vote for it even if it’s not an issue that motivates them to vote.

    •  

      That was our get out the vote strategy in Oregon. For the phonebanking part, we didn’t even discuss the ballot measure. We just called younger voters and democrats and reminded them to get their ballots in.

      •  

        It’s safer to play the numbers, especially on a topic like this. I spoke with some family members in Oregon who were against it, but knowing they were conservative, played up the business and individual liberty aspects. It turns out that there are a lot of people like me who don’t smoke or make that choice but want it to remain a personal choice rather than a government one.

        •  

          I agree completely. Democrats supported our measure at the rate of 77%. Republicans only supported it at the rate of 33%. Just playing the numbers, getting 4 democrats to turn in their ballots will on average result in 3 yes votes and 1 no vote. We knew that just increasing turnout among democrats, independents and young voters — who all support the measure overwhelmingly — to a high enough level would be enough for victory, and it was. No need to even mention the ballot measure, because in the time you spend trying to convince one person to vote yes on the ballot measure, you could have contacted 8 more people and turned them out, resulting in 6 additional yes votes, rather than wasting time trying to persuade one person to vote yes. That is what the ads and endorsements are for, to persuade the undecided.

          If the electorate in Florida had the same partisan breakdown as that in Oregon, Florida would now have legal medical MJ, by a comfortable margin.

          •  

            I replied to your comment below before it was deleted. I would still greatly appreciate it if you would read it, even if you rescinded your comment.

          •  

            I wrote about that on my own fledgling blog. The breakdowns were actually very similar and the likely culprit was a low voter turnout. Democrats suck at getting people to understand that you don’t just turn out for the big presidential elections, but the little ones, whereas “stick it to Obama at the midterm” turned out to be a good rallying cry for Republicans.

  7.  

    Coming from a Bible thumper, this is for the other bible thumpers against medical cannabis, or anyone for that matter.
    http://iambroken1.wordpress.com/2014/11/05/cannabis-bible-study-part-1/

  8.  

    Like I said before casino owners was against medical marijuana according to the age bracket of top no voters are 65 and older. Casino goers

  9.  

    You need to check to see how many MAIL INS were NO !! Because whats stopping a bunch of people that have Peoples infos like PHARM companies and CASINO owners and Mailing them in !

  10.  

    Death is our ally in Florida.

  11.  

    The average age of people that watch FAUX NEWS is 65 yo and most aren’t internet savy! They voted the way they were brainwashed by mainstream media! Persuaded by FEAR and LIES, false advertising to take care of the network owners and corporate political interest over compassion and allow all of our friends, family, and loved ones to continue to suffer!
    Thanks REPUBLICATS!

    •  

      Wake up and smell the BS AMERICA and lets get the government to start working for the people once again!
      It just proves the old saying…”MONEY TALKS AND BULLSHIT, THE TRUTH, WALKS”!
      The one with the most corporate donations wins!
      Wolf-Pac!

    •  

      Oh that’s thats right, cnn news, nbc, libtard media etc. and libtard followers are completely innocent and completely tell the truth too. Right?… righhhttttt…Oh ya and are allllll not corrupt at all too right??? Riiighhhhht….. Yep, keep blaming conservative citizens for everything. That’s why your hero the commander in CHEAT, are enjoying leaving the borders completely wide open, granting 5 million green cards, putting our country further into the hole and so forth. I can go on forever. Both sides are corrupt. And believe it or not, there’s tons of people on both sides that want this law passed too. This is not about being repub. or democrap.. So shut your fudge packing loving face hole and get over yourself. F**kin leftist rhetoric trash! It’s people like you is the reason why the country is the way it is… Though I have no problem with Cannabis at all… but gotdamn, there’s tons more things going on within our country and the rest of the world to worry about, then this stupid law to keep your minds washed up. ANDDD, FloriDUHHH will never pass this type of law. It’s a fuckin police state, get over it. And lastly, if you hate the laws here, the go move to your fudge packing loving leftist states, like Colorado, or get ass rammed in Cali. San Fran… Or grow some balls and just hit the streets and make a purchase anyway with or without this law,,, you can get smoke anywhere anyway, it’s the easiest to obtain from all street recreational substances etc… or,, again, if you got no balls, get out of florida and move to a pot state.. hell tell a friend to f**kin mail it to you from Colorado, dumbshit!

  12.  

    Who supports crimes against humanity by voting against the basic human right of medicating with a beneficial herb known to mankind since time immemorial? People devoid of empathy, i.e., sociopaths, that’s who!

  13.  

    I find it sadly interesting that so many false assumptions are being made about seniors and retirees by people who spend the majority of their time berating them rather than taking the initiative to create meaningful dialogue for effectively communicating with them. These are the Woodstock era folks, the Baby Boomers, and they’re being driven away in droves by people who either don’t have the capacity for connecting with them or interest in doing so.
    Persistently alienating a large voter segment is not only foolish, but also counterproductive. We tend to be products of our upbringing, and in so many parts of the country marijuana has not been effectively explained with regard to medicinal use and benefits. While it may be humorous for some to see a stereotypical stoner depicted in a video or TV news clip about the merits of legalization, it does nothing to sway those who might be interested in learning more about it.
    Imagine where we can be in the near future if some viable effort is put into educating people about the potential health benefits for some people rather than continuing to speak unkindly about them because they haven’t been effectively educated on the subject. The crux of the communication issue rests with the originator/sender of the message, not the recipient. Talk with them rather than down to them and progress can be made much easier and quicker.

    •  

      Remember, there were two types of people during the Woodstock era. Those who thought Woodstock was great, and those who wanted to punch everyone of those hippies. And in case you need to be reminded (go look at the Presidential vote totals from 1968 or 1972), the ones who wanted to punch those hippies GREATLY outnumbered the hippies.

      But, please, if you have an idea about how to reach out to a bunch of Fox news worshiping hippie punchers, tell us what that is…

    •  

      You can’t fix stupid but the ones that stayed home are the real assholes. Just fucking lazy! Oh well, I hope “they” don’t get arrested.

  14.  

    Racist blog against whites

  15.  

    The people that voted “no” are not the voters that caused this outcome. The people to point out are the ones that did not vote at all. Only 50.5% of registered voters actually voted.

  16.  

    Everyone should stop listening to the police talk about this issue anymore because they survive on the federal funds they collect by throwing people into prison for marijuana (seriously, how WRONG IS THAT?). A lot of doctors are making big dollars off of pharmaceutical companies as well – they don’t want to see their cash cow slaughtered either…these special interests are screwing us here in Florida, but hopefully our state government will do the right thing considering 57% of the people voted in favor of medical legalization.

    The fact this didn’t pass is because Florida is the state the old go to before they die. They sit in their homes all damn day popping pills and staring at the television hopped up on anti-depressants, narcotics, and a host of other pharmaceuticals–those are the sheeple that Sheldon Anderson’s attack adds targeted – those are our enemies. But before you go grabbing grannies rocker to beat her into a pile of shit and death, just remember — our politicians could have, and still can, legislate a bill to allow us – the hardworking, tax paying citizens of this state access to a plant that we know will improve our quality of life.

    •  

      No, you missed the point about the reason it didn’t pass, and you continue missing it.
      The reason it didn’t pass is because the voting group/age range that voted “no” are the ones being beaten up about this issue rather than rationally approached and educated on the benefits for many people suffering from various medical issues that defy treatment with prescription medications.
      Also, the presumption that seniors don’t pay taxes is yet another misguided insult.
      The adage “respect your elders” is quite valid today with regard to this issue, and giving it a try rather than continuing failed, spiteful attacks is likely to reap some positive rewards.

  17.  

    If you’d like to really do something proactive, come join our group and read what our goals are for medical marijuana.

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/mmmjfl/

  18.  

    Election was rigged.

    •  

      Big brother speaks loudly by subtle means as to brag about his deeds… What media this country… what politics… who is voting? REPRESENTATIVES…..

      Who is representing?

      We… or them?

      In this new age of technology and Cell phone/ web connectivity, electronic voting can easily be everyones vote.. not one antiquated individual representing many….

      Technology has advanced to a place where Americans can represent themselves…. this is a beautiful thing they will try and hide from you.

      To maintain their representative threshold over us. They must maintain a facade of freedom while holding control from behind closed chambers.

      Future Forefather stuff… 4 more years…. lol.

  19.  

    Hahaha well Floridians don’t you worry, after a few more of those old-ass republicans die off you’ll have your medical weed.

  20.  

    It’s a leaf from a plant, grown from mother earths soil. All natural high. Thanks! http://www.pathconsulting.net/

  21.  

    Man made booze, God made weed. Why are Republicans so against God’s gift but also sit in church (a lot more than those of lesser income status do/can) praying to him for this and that because they believe he knows it all?

  22.  

    I think a lot of those no votes would have been yes votes had there been more discussion about how it would be regulated. There just wasn’t enough information on that aspect of it. A lot of people I know that are 100% pro-medical marijuana just felt like nobody explained how it would be managed and some other states don’t do such a great job of it. I think the key is education of the public.

  23.  

    This bill passed. I received my unopened and uncounted vote back in the mail from the department of elections along with other elderly or disabled people that I know who also received their unopened and uncounted vote back in the mail. It is not a matter of convincing people, it is a matter of fraud. As it stands right now, too many people in government are getting kickbacks from the pill mill state and they want to make sure that they manipulate a new legislation to line their pockets before it gets passed. Voting is a joke in Florida. Look what happened in the Gore-Bush campaign. There is no accountability and there is no security. Don’t believe me? Just google your name online and see how your voter id#, along with your address and birth date has been published for anyone to steal, along with my seventeen year old daughter’s voter id# who, according to online records, has been a registered voter since she was 16 years old. Governor Wilson Lumpkin, the first Governor of Georgia along with others truly believed that; “The voice of the people is the voice of God.” Government leaders in this state at least, have truly offended God because He made His voice heard and they turned a deaf ear.

  24.  

    I was going to go to the polls to vote yes…but then I got high

  25.  

    I’m not sure they need to convince anyone new to win in 2016. Even if they put the exact same amendment on the ballot next year, everything else being equal it would get to 60%, because younger people are so much more likely to skip ‘off-year” elections, and also some of the unreachable old folks will have died off by 2016. Apparently Morgan is going to submit a less liberal amendment in 2016, which is kind of a shame, though understandable,

  26.  

    We need action taken at the federal level immediately. Its MORALLY INDEFENSIBLE to keep Marijuana on Schedule 1 for even one second longer.

  27.  

    Denying Medical Marijuana to American Children with Dravet’s Syndrome is as MORALLY INDEFENSIBLE as denying insulin to American Children with Diabetes, or denying life-saving antibiotics to American Children with life-threatening infections. American Children with Seizure disorders like Dravet’s Syndrome are suffering and dying — needlessly — because of people in Washington who are too lazy and cowardly to admit they were wrong about Medical Marijuana and to remove it from Schedule 1 so that it can be prescribed on the same basis as every other medication.

    RIGHTING THIS WRONG IS A MORAL IMPERATIVE OF THE HIGHEST ORDER.

    There is no way in world to justify denying life-saving medication to children who are suffering and dying.

  28.  

    My daughter suffers from crohns, a dibilitating terminal disease, there is a good chance thc oils will help her and possibly cure her. All of these pills they have prescribed have not helped, and have huge side effects. How will my daughter taking thc oil affect anyone’s life but ours? Right, it won’t. So why do people expect me to let my daughter suffer and die when there is a chance I could save her? I am also concerned that it’s acceptable to go get drunk, and drive and in many cases kill other people affecting many lives. But my child, my life, is not allowed to sit in her home and try to stay alive, hurting absolutely nobody. It is sickening, heartbreaking, and just plain wrong.

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