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Recent Arizona Poll Results Not Favorable For 2016 Legalization Effort

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regulate marijuana like alcohol arizona 2016The Arizona Campaign to Regulate Marijuana Like Alcohol is gathering signatures to put marijuana legalization on the 2016 ballot. Earlier this month the campaign announced that it had crossed the 200,000 signatures mark. The campaign needs to gather 150,642 valid signatures in order to get on the ballot. Signature gathering efforts are going well, but a poll (put out by an opponent organization called Arizonans for Responsible Drug Policy) found just 43% support for legalization. Per AZ Central:

If a vote were taken today, Arizonans could reject an initiative to legalize recreational use of marijuana by adults, according to a poll released by the campaign opposing the plan.

The survey shows 43 percent of likely voters support legalizing marijuana for recreational use while 49 percent would vote against it. About 8 percent of likely voters were undecided. The telephone survey has a margin of error of about 4 percent.

These poll results should be taken with a grain of salt. Often times (but not all times) polls are skewed in favor of a ‘no’ vote. That’s due to the fact that a lot of people out there don’t want to answer ‘yes’ to a marijuana legalization poll out of fear. But when it comes time to actually vote, some of the ‘no’ votes turn into ‘yes’ votes because it’s a private act. I think it’s also worth pointing out that the poll was conducted via telephone, which can skew results since it involves an older-than-actual polling pool.

But regardless of any concerns about the poll results, which again was put out by the opposition, this is a learning opportunity for people that live in Arizona and/or are involved in the campaign. If you check out the article I linked to, you will see that when people were asked about some reefer madness scenarios, they were more likely to be pushed away from voting in favor of legalization. It’s proof that there are a lot of people that are on the fence about the initiative, and whoever wins the awareness battle is going to likely win the campaign. Spread the truth, share facts, make sure to keep gathering those signatures!

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Johnny Green

Johnny Green is no longer with The Weed Blog because he was caught redhanded stealing money from TWB and using black hat strategies to inflate pageviews to try and lure unsuspecting investors. We hope Johnny has learned from his mistakes and wish his family well.

61 Comments

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  5. Robert Darshaia on

    Camp Verde, AZ is building a huge new Medical Marijuana growing facility that is bigger than some of the hospitals in the area. Now, if there is that much need in the communities of Arizona for Medical Marijuana, I think it’s safe to say that recreational Marijuana will soon be legal in Arizona too.

  6. I am an AZ senior citizen who uses Marajuana for pain and thrilled not to be on poison pain meds any longer. The entire Country needs to legalize this herb and stop the pharmaceuticals from running the government!

  7. Richard McDonough on

    The initiative petition process is the only way anything will ever change in the late, great United States. Go to initiativepetitions.us for info.

  8. Marc Decrosta on

    So wait…does this mean it is going to be on the ballot in November??

  9. Outstanding reply. Most of the country is aware of the Deep South with it’s positives and negatives. Pull up that national map of dry counties in America. Georgia isn’t that bad. Public perception doesn’t seem to change in the South until the cards are on the table. It’s like a poker face from the outside.

    The state has never been progressive to say the least. What you want to get going there is local government ordinances. Educate from the bottom up. I read that Atlanta was seeking a Decrim ticket option. Those are good for changing public perception. NORML can help with that when enough people get involved. Just remember that even 5 years ago the idea of a CBD oil in Georgia was a long shot. Now they have admitted that the plant has medical value. That sure changed fast.

    The Civil Rights violations in the state are slightly higher than other states but not far from the national average. Black and Latinos are still arrested and convicted at a rate above 3 to 1 nationally with some cities faring worst. The civil rights angle doesn’t seem to be of much interest in the South. It should embarrass them. We’re going to see federal legislation on criminal justice before marijuana prohibition in my opinion.

    And we all want federal change because it affects so many other things. If we get a state policy approach then that leads to the same end. The federal government is funding prohibition. When they defer that to states, we will see a good part of the opposition suddenly look for a new piece of the budget.

    Southern states are not known for voting to raise their own taxes. If the same people turn to Georgia voters and say we need to raise your taxes to fund this marijuana prohibition, that is a different story. Deep seated convictions are tested by the check book and prohibition is expensive. It isn’t profitable without federal subsidy.

  10. I agree — the change will happen. But it will happen the same way it did with desegregation, universal suffrage, and the end of alcohol prohibition: Georgia will do it reluctantly because the rest of the country forces the issue. When the State Ratifying Convention did away with alcohol prohibition in 1933, Georgia was one of the eight states that didn’t take part. There are still dry counties in Georgia, today. Not many, but we have them. It was similar with the 19th Amendment granting everyone the vote in 1920 — Georgia rejected it in 1919, and women weren’t able to vote until 1922, two years after it was passed. And yes, absolutely, Georgia has an even uglier history with Jim Crowe and discrimination.

    Georgia is officially desegregated, yes, but our cannabis laws keep Jim Crowe alive and well. In Georgia, you’re 3.7 times more likely to be arrested for cannabis if you’re black. They don’t say it, publicly. But that’s how the laws are enforced. The son of Paul Broun, the Tea Party congressman, has been arrested for cannabis possession three times, but has never been to court, let alone prison. While other states have “three strikes” laws, Georgia has two strikes (but only for poor people). A cannabis conviction strips your right to vote and your 2nd amendment rights. Private prisons and private probation firms are huge business in this state. Prosecuting poor people is big bucks in the Dirty South. It’s terrible.

    That’s why I pay so much attention to *other* states. It will take top-down action to force Georgia’s state government to do the right thing and end cannabis prohibition. Right now, my count of states that could, potentially, end cannabis prohibition this year is still at eight: Arizona, California, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, Nevada, Rhode Island and Vermont. I’m confident at least five (maybe 7) will pass. Michigan could be close, and Rhode Island and Vermont’s legislatures are having issues reaching consensus.

    Georgia will not change of its own volition unless the political landscape changes. That’s the catch-22: we can’t reform our cannabis laws unless we vote out the opposition, and we can’t vote out the opposition unless we reform our cannabis laws.

  11. The Problem with Georgia and much of the South is an almost religious dependence on political party. It’s more like a monarchy than a democracy. The positive there is that public perception can change in one day if the leaders assure them it’s fine. You don’t have to reason with a majority in that case, it’s just a matter of persuading a few of the shepherds.

    Georgia Sheriffs Association is a scary bunch of people and industry that goes back to providing agricultural workers after slavery was abolished. That’s where the Jim Crow laws started and prison labor was born.

    The prison for profit industry is in all 50 states. Therefore you have a Sheriffs Association. Just remember that they did accept that black people are people. They also eventually accepted that woman could go to school and vote. When those changes happened in the South, they happened very quickly, while the debates had been going on for decades in other states.

    20 years from now cannabis will be sold in Georgia just like alcohol is today. When it does happen there it will happen much faster than the baby steps we see in other states.

  12. It certainly is a pity about Ohio. Had their initiative not been intended to benefit a select number of investors, the momentum was there to pass legalization. Despite the many failings of that campaign, at the very least, they raised awareness of the issue, significantly. In my opinion, significantly enough that they could have pushed for adult use, this year.

    But MPP likes the success rate of their formula. First, pass a medical initiative that serves the two purposes of getting access to those in most need and supplanting the arguments of opponents who spout nonsense about the sky falling. After that, they pursue legalization once the public is no longer senselessly frightened by a harmless plant. It’s painfully slow, and they’re doing it state-by-state, but it’s working.

    I live in a state where prohibitionists actively oppose medical cannabis because they understand that’s what happens: medical cannabis defuses the bulk of their arguments. That’s the natural course of events. What’s funny is that they publicly acknowledge this fact: “We can’t do medical because it opens the door to full legalization.” My response is “Yes, it does. What’s your point?” Prohibitionists (mostly law enforcement in my state) know that nobody goes from being for cannabis legalization to being against it — that door only swings one way. Once the myths are dispelled, they can’t undo it. Unfortunately, here in Georgia, the Criminal Justice System is “big business” for all parties involved. That’s why they don’t just oppose medical use. They vigorously oppose any form of decriminalization, as well.

  13. So get your group together and raise the money and change those felony laws. You can’t do this all in one piece. You come off like a SAM rep.

  14. There is no issue. It’s about a group of people with egos and a group who is looking at this as their chance to be famous. In truth the group leading the charge against RO fell for the same trick. Now they grew up and are with MPP in Ohio this year. Only it’s not Rec, it’s a restrictive MM program only. That is the cost of taking a step back.

  15. Yeah the time for feedback on a plan is about 2 years before revealing it to the public for attack. A year at the least. During that time people are too busy. But when the cameras start covering it and people see it might happen, everyone becomes a legal expert and feels neglected if a campaign someone didn’t get involved in a year ago won’t stop for the bandwagon jumpers and start changing things to each whim. This attitude is why Arizona is not ready for legalization.

  16. Alaska Red isn’t exactly the same thing as Arizona Red. Alaska was one of the first states to pass decrim. It’s a fact that Republicans are the party mostly defending prohibition. Aside from Alaska what red state even has a decent MM program?

  17. Any state with two competing groups this late in the game with fail. One of the groups will join with the Prohibition groups seeking some media attention, and it’s all down hill from there. You sound like you are from that second group and you don’t realize you are being manipulated by the same people who are responsible for prohibition. Look at Ohio with 36 per cent and that is your future.

    You can social media all you want but your group doesn’t have more than 35 cents and you need a million just to make ballot and another 10 million to get the truth out. There is no grass roots movement that is just going to send you money and resources. You change laws one step at a time. You aren’t helping so you are hurting. That is pride messing with your head.

    You should be volunteering to make coffee for MPP or doing whatever it takes to win another battle. Just because you have a Facebook group with a bunch of teenagers who unfortunately can’t vote doesn’t mean you have real people. Half of the lettuce ballots are going to be people under voting age and phonies. This is prime example of why Arizona wall fail. I’ve argued with the know it all kids before. They don’t accept that it takes real money, just caught up in the moment. When it does fail badly they will use that as an excuse to limit medical in Arizona. See Montana. But you already know everything with your 35 cents. Some of us live in states where we enjoy the finest legal buds, but we don’t know anything. Legal isn’t or everyone. I can tell you how we got here, but you know everything and have your own ideas, and 35 cents. Good luck with that.

  18. Skoalio you are consistently the most negative commenter. I think you think you are cursed. Like if you hope for the opposite then the right thing will happen. You know too much about the issue to believe all will fail. I’ve got 4 of those you mention winning easily. Montana isn’t even on my list because I saw what they did to a good MM program. Most of these races are close but opposition polls were predicting DC would lose, and we got over 70 per cent. They have done the low poll thing in every state going all the way back to Prop 215. They did it in Colorado and Alaska too. Alaska was polling to lose even a week before. I’ve seen polls 10 points off the night before an election.

  19. These are important points. The media in Arizona is publishing some crazy horror stories like they are genuine news.

  20. We’ve seen opposition polls predicting losses before. It’s pretty much a standard tactic. MPP should do another poll now with the right language and tone, and produce a 70 per cent poll, just to be equally ridiculous. I’m not saying Arizona is going to pass because there are a lot of factors, but it’s probably dead even right now.

    They have a very well funded opposition that has been running for almost 2 years. We know it cost 4 dollars of education for every 1 dollar of fear they instill. The Arizona Sheriffs Association has all members in full Eliot Ness mode. Prohibition offenders are the bread and butter of the prison contract industry. There are also some strong racial and ethnic miscommunication in the state. Now they even have a Lettuce movement, like the Monopoly movement in Ohio. The Lettuce Movement has joined with the Prohibition forces there to actually accuse MPP of all sorts of things.

    There is always a ”regulate like lettuce or nothing” group in every state. Ohio then Arizona were the first states where a we saw a competing group join with Prohibition over personal differences and details of a plant. It’s the kiss of death. Evidence that local are ignorant enough to vote to remain slaves because they don’t like the details of the way the chains are coming off. Arizona is likely to fail and badly like Ohio did. MPP would probably be better served to just pull funds and focus somewhere else.

    People need to accept the reality that if reform even keeps moving it’s going to be different in each states, just as alcohol rules are different in each state, but still must comply with federal standards. Not all US states are going to have legal marijuana. Ohio clearly wasn’t even close to being ready, monopoly deal or not. Arizona is desert with a limited water supply. I don’t see it as being an important recreational state anyway. California is likely to finally go this year and Arizona just isn’t going to draw many visitors from neighboring states. They are probably best used as a distraction. Maybe work on expanding medical first and try again in 2020.

  21. Fungi Sclerotia 1427 on

    IF it’s legal federally, though,
    state-level cannabis opponents will
    no longer be able to say, “But, it’s against federal law”,
    [their NUMERO UNO “excuse”],
    when the issue is up for discussion!

  22. Fungi Sclerotia 1427 on

    The “since 1996”:

    Prop 200, (on the November 1996 ballot):
    Makes medical use of ALL federally Schedule 1 compounds, plants, etc, legal in AZ.

    The YES on Prop 200 vote:
    65% Yes to 35% No

    We DID know what we were voting for,
    (contrary to assertions by AG Romley and Gov Symington that we didn’t…).

  23. Legalizing federal would just mean it’s not illegal federally. Any state could still ban it if they wanted. The federal government does not have the power to force states to legalize marijuana

  24. It appears that Section 36-2853 (C) of the initiative only allows 3 of the 7 members to be owners or stakeholders in cannabis businesses, and that the other 4 cannot have any sort of vested interest. It also restricts the governor from stacking the commission with members of the same political party and says that the split must be equal between those who do and don’t have controlling interest in a cannabis business.

    As for overturning past and present convictions, if the conviction happened in a state court and not federal, it’s possible. If the attorney prosecuted the felony in a federal court, however — there aren’t many avenues to get that overturned other than either an appeal to a Circuit Court with regional jurisdiction or a Presidential pardon. If it ever happens — overturning the convictions and expunging records — it’ll probably require some sort of federal bill so that all convictions (not just state court convictions) can be overturned. Generally, it’s hard to get your rights back after a felony (11 states don’t have any appeal process to restore your voting rights), let alone scrub the conviction, entirely.

    So I’m very iffy on the power of any initiative to achieve expungement at the ballot. However, Colorado’s A64 also did not include a provision to overturn convictions, but a panel of appellate court judges in Colorado made a ruling on March 13, 2014 to overturn a 2011 conviction based on the passage of A64, which supposedly opened the door in Colorado to overturn convictions for petty cannabis offenses, retroactively. The same could still happen in Arizona if the initiative passes and if an appellate court in Arizona agrees with the precedent set by the court in Colorado and takes similar action. There’s still hope, even if it isn’t spelled out in the text.

  25. There’s no reason to doubt the poll because it’s a telephone poll – telephone polls which call cell phones, at least, are at least as accurate as any other polling method.
    HOWEVER, there is huge reason to disbelieve the poll because of the demographics of the respondents. Here’s the breakdown of the poll by age, taken from the linked article:

    13% 18-34
    13% 35-44
    17% 45-54
    21% 55-64
    36% 65+

    Compare that to the results of Arizona’s exit poll in the 2012 election, the most recent Presidential election year (not going to include a link because then the post will have to be approved, so just google “Arizona 2012 exit poll” if you want to corroborate my #s):

    26% 18-29
    29% 30-44
    32% 45-64
    12% 65+

    Look at that – the combined 18-44 demographic was a whopping 45% of the electorate in the 2012 election, yet only makes up 26% of the respondents of the poll! Conversely, those 65 and older are given THREE TIMES the representation they should have in this poll – 36% of the respondents versus only 12% of the 2012 electorate.

    In polling, one of the simplest ways to skew results in your favor is to over-sample demographic groups that favor you. This appears to be a really, really blatant use of that tactic.

  26. It’s not as bad as THIS poll says. None of the initiatives have even made the ballot yet! They’ve not even started spending their money yet! I honestly think AZ passes this Initiative. Especially once the TRUE facts are shown.

    The AZ Republic right now allows prohibitionists Bill Montgomery, Sheila Polk, Seth Liebsohn and Charles Milstead, to write articles/opinion pieces that actually claimed that “Marijuana KILLED 62 CHILDREN in AZ in 2014”! They let them publish that shit! Now they’re writing pieces touting the Stats from the RMDHTA (?) survey that shows Traffic fatalities increased 77% since legalization. Which in actuality they DROPPED 32%! It shows Teen Usage rates went up 70%, etc… When in all actuality, marijuana use by teens since “Commercialization” (Medical Marijuana) has steadily gone down every year!

  27. One thing is certain; whether commentators agree or disagree with the results of this poll, it would be much better news if the polls showed ANY cannabis law reform with overwhelming support.
    The trick for those in Arizona, then, is for them to find at least one person who is in opposition, and work hard to change their mind!

  28. Correction: the number of Dispensaries in this State are a ratio of how many Pharmacies exist in AZ. They took the # of Pharmacies and then broke the State up into that many sections and they allow 1 dispensary in each section!

    The MPP initiative doesn’t overturn ANY of AZ’s Felony Marijuana possession laws. People can STILL go to jail for having more than 1.5 ounces or 5 grams of concentrates on them.

    The MPP initiative doesn’t deal with past OR present convictions!

    The MPP initiative allows Dispensary owners a monopoly on Marijuana businesses for 2 yrs, IIRC? It creates a new Commission in the NEW “Dept of Marijuana enforcement”. That will allow Dispensary owners to stack the commission with Dispensary owners. Which allows that commission to make the rules for the program. Can you say… “conflict of interest”?

    There’s a lot of things in it that I’m not really fond of. But people need to be REALISTIC about what CAN and what CAN’T pass in AZ! I honestly don’t think an initiative written like the competing initiative would honestly PASS in AZ! Arizonans would NOT go for that. It’s WAY too liberal to pass in AZ. I like MANY of the things in it. But Arizona ain’t gonna go for that!

  29. Don’t bet on it! Arizona is VERY Libertarian. Especially Southern AZ, (Tucson) PHX is Republican and Flagstaff is Liberal as hell!

    It’s just that the ONLY candidates that ever have a chance are the 2 party candidates! Libertarians can’t even qualify for Federal aide for their elections until we get a candidate that can draw 15% of the vote!

  30. Oh ye of little knowledge! Arizonans aren’t AGAINST Legalization like you’re trying to portray. Arizonans are acting a LOT like Ohioans did to their LAST legalization Bill! They don’t like the model that’s gonna be up for vote!

    77% of Arizonans think marijuana should be legal! What they’re NOT REALLY happy with is the model in which this Initiative is based upon. 50% of the Pro Marijuana supporters in AZ are campaigning AGAINST it!

    There are 2 Competing Initiatives that stand a chance of making the ballot. Probably only 1 of them will, but it’ll be close! We won’t know about that until July! They’ve barely started campaigning for the initiative yet. They’ve not spent much money at all yet!

    Our legalization initiative hasn’t even been approved for the ballot yet! They’re still collecting signatures. They must have 150,000 signatures to make the ballot. The MPP initiative has over 200,000 signatures and counting. The competing initiative AZFMR (Arizonans For Marijuana Reform) has over 100,000 signatures and counting. So, please don’t go making assumptions about OUR legalization initiative, just yet!

    SURPRISE! It’s NOT the Seniors who oppose this as much as it is the model of legalization that will be available to vote on!

    The MPP initiative does NOT overturn ANY AZ laws on possession. If you’ve got more than 1.5 ounces or 4 grams of concentrates on you, they can STILL charge you with a FELONY! Plus the people aren’t happy that it seems the Medical Dispensary owners had this Initiative written just FOR them!

    It gives THEM a monopoly on the businesses available to open. It creates a “Commission” within the NEW “Department of Marijuana enforcement” Yet the commission will be stacked with Dispensary owners who get to make the rules for the program. Can you say, “conflict of interest”?

    It puts a CAP on the number of marijuana businesses that can exist! Municipalities have the authority to disallow cultivation by individuals, withn their city limits!

    The City of Phoenix last week used a preemptive strike on legalized marijuana businesses by passing STRICT zoning restrictions for marijuana businesses. Yet there’s a fucking Liquor Store on every corner!

  31. A fantastic, well-reasoned response to a persistent troll who always drops turds in the comment section — usually in the form of statements like “it’s all over”, “it’s hopeless”, etc., or throwing up bogus, unsupported numbers to create a sense that our side is losing or our position is wrong — and then leaves.

    “You see, constantly shifting points and topics in an attempt to keep the
    other person chasing your meandering dialogue of reasoning isn’t the
    same thing as having a cohesive, stalwart argument.”

    It is called a Gish gallop. It is a tried-and-true debate strategy where the person using it just parrots lie after lie after lie, in rapid succession, with rambling arguments that the opponent has to spend time “chasing down.” Since the opponent has to spend all of his time countering the lies, he never gets to make his points. Or if he doesn’t counter the lies and does try to get a message out, the lies just stand out there unchallenged. A good moderator who is doing their job will call out someone using a Gish gallop, but most TV moderators today practice “false equivalency” by trying to remain neutral between the person telling the truth and the one telling lies, which turns the whole affair into a he said-she said situation. And of course, in a comment forum, there is no moderator to step in and fact-check.

    It is a fundamentally dishonest tactic by definition, and tends to be a favorite of right wingers and prohibitionists. In other words, when your position is indefensible and is not grounded in facts and logic, the Gish gallop is extremely effective, and is in fact the only effective debate strategy when factual arguments are not possible to support their position. In fact, I believe it was used by creationists when they had a debate with a pro-science person like Bill Nye, and I hate to say that it worked, in the sense that the creationist was perceived to have won the debate. It is a favorite tactic of liars, bigots and authoritarians. Because they have nothing else to make their case.

  32. I have a very easy resolution to take many of the “clouds of confusion and contradiction” out of this equation —– NATIONALLY.
    Big Brother, for one time where it WILL BENEFIT THE PUBLIC, makes it LAW that cannabis is LEGAL in ALL 50 STATES and PUERTO RICO.

    No, ifs ands or buts from ANY state —- this IS a FEDERAL LAW that supersedes ANY AND ALL state-attempt to circumvent or not fully enforce this FEDERAL LAW.
    This is the ONLY way for it to be totally FAIR for EVERY U.S. CITIZEN. No state resident should be DISCRIMINATED against solely because they live in a specific state.

    BIG BROTHER just loves taking over governments and making regime changes “or others” — all for the sake of what?

    OUR government has no problem wiping out 200,000 citizens in a foreign land —- noooooooooo problem ———- that’s what we make all these bombs for ———- Oh ! You say we’re dropping bombs FASTER THAN WE CAN MAKE THEM ?!??!?! WOW ! WE MUST BE DOING A GOOD JOB, HUH !!!!

    Come on maaaaaan —- who the fuck are you trying to fool? You not only want to control every American citizen, YOU want to control the WORLD !
    Yup ——— this cannabis sure is crazy, dangerous shit, maaaaan ….

    GO BERNIE ! GO ELIZABETH WARREN ! WE’LL LEAD THE CHARGE WITH YOU — WE’RE ALL ONE —– ONE BIG WAVE THAT IS BUILDING FORCE SO GREAT THAT WHEN IT REALLY HITS, IT WILL MAKE KATRINA LOOK LIKE A MERE RAINSTORM !

  33. I have always lived in NYS, so I’m not (directly) affected by what happens in Arizona. I just wanted to chime in and state that you appear to have dug in so as to separate the wheat from the chaff, so to speak. I like that.
    And that’s EXACTLY the type of interested, educated and objective-minded we all need for ALL ISSUES that affect the American Public.
    An accurately-informed Public CAN “govern themselves” through their elected representatives WHEN THEIR REPRESENTATIVES REPRESENT THEM.
    IF this takes place, we have what is called a “democracy”. We are FAR from that because we have an Establishment that works DAILY on suppressing our wishes AND our demands through a CORRUPTED VOTING SYSTEM.

  34. Yes, that IS a factor, I would have to say.

    BUT, also consider this : This “information” is coming out of the State of Arizona, where recently, the freedom to vote was stripped from thousands upon thousands of REGISTERED VOTERS either by greatly decreasing (and strategically removing) specific voting sites, by “purging” REGISTERED VOTERS from the registry through a RE-entering them as “unaffiliated” i.e. “Independent” registered voters.

    The REALLY sad part about everything that is coming to light and to the surface is the millions of voters and potential voters who are so bamboozled or ignorant or lazy that they truly do not have a grasp on what is happening.

    It’s like 65% of the country is keeps on walking while all this shit is happening. “Nope — not true.” “Oh, shit — you’re exaggerating…” “Quit with the lies…”

    Just AMAZINGLY SAD !

  35. saynotohypocrisy on

    “It does forbid those who rent to not be able to consume or grow if the landlord puts it in the lease.”

    As far as I know landlords have that right everywhere that recreational cannabis is legal. I’m more uncertain about the rights of medicinal users in the various states that have legalized that, but my guess is that most or all of those states don’t require a landlord to accommodate medicinal users either.
    Does anyone have more info on the rights of MMJ users vs. their landlords?

  36. saynotohypocrisy on

    Without that information on how the poll was conducted, I see no reason to take this poll by cannabis haters seriously. If reputable pollsters show results like this, that’s when I’ll get worried.

  37. too many senior citizens in Arizona, looking for dry heat and lots of old ideas…

  38. I never said or implied you had not read it — I only stated that I had not yet read it. And yes, I did notice the rights reserved for property owners, but that wasn’t remotely related to price-gouging, which is why I didn’t think that was the point you were trying to make. If a lease forbids it, then the lease forbids it, and one can hardly
    argue otherwise until federal laws change because the property owner —
    not the renter — shoulders the risk of asset forfeiture.

    If your issue isn’t price gouging and is somehow related to Sheriff Joe’s bigotry, then please, spell it out. I am sincerely sorry, but I’m having a very hard time following your meandering objections to the ballot initiative and I still don’t see how maintaining the status quo (if you have cannabis and aren’t a patient or medical provider, you get busted) is better for cannabis consumers in Arizona. Sheriff Joe can and will find any/every reason to conduct his reprehensible activities until he’s booted from office. How can maintaining prohibition be better than the proposed initiative? Why would this initiative be a bad thing?

    Leaping from one loose objection to another… It’s too incoherent for me to follow. If there’s a real, clear, and compelling reason to fault this initiative, you haven’t made the case for it, yet. I’m trying to see the monster you’ve said this thing is, but you need to be specific and say why this would be worse than what Arizona currently has, which is prohibition with medical exceptions. Tell me why this initiative is worse than what Arizona has now. Why shouldn’t Arizona pass this initiative?

    Seriously, I took an hour to read the initiative despite the fact that I’m not an Arizona resident because I was willing to entertain the possibility that there was a deal-breaking issue with it, like in Ohio last year. But I didn’t see anything that I’d call a deal-breaker. Now you’re telling me to read the medical law and then go scrolling through Facebook? Please, stop giving me homework and just make your case in plain English. I’m willing to ride the “ya, but” train only so far and Facebook is where I draw the line.

  39. It does forbid those who rent to not be able to consume or grow if the landlord puts it in the lease. Also you should read our medical marijuana program. Then try to understand what we are up against here. Also just because its legalized doesn’t make it decriminalized. These ballots have a lot of gray area because unlike the states who have legalized marijuana they decriminalized first. Please remember who Maricopa county sheriff is also. You don’t believe they will harass people just to stop and check people for the amounts on them. It seems you think I haven’t read the initiatives. But in fact I have read all states bills regarding anything to do with cannabis. Also I recommend reading up how many times it took Arizona to even pass medical marijuana here and how the government overturned what the citizens voted for just because of wording. Its not just because of a poorly written initiatives that both have admitted on facebook its because of what they’ve had to endure in the past.

  40. That’s three, and the first of your examples doesn’t fit your alleged model of failure. Barely passing is still passing. And you have many, MANY other initiatives for which you must give evidence at the state and local level across the country if you want to prove your point.

    But really, that’s all moot. Let’s not forget that you backtracked your original comment because you neglected to remember how the electorate in Alaska performs. Plus, I’ve been reading your comments: you say anything/everything that’s anti-cannabis that you can pull out of your hat, and when challenged, you wilt away, not responding, dropping your arguments. The fact that you can’t stick to a single stance demonstrates the overall weakness of your assertions. It’s like moving the goal posts in a football game, but loosely speaking, it’s more like having “monkey-bar” arguments — as soon as you lose one, you grab for another. It’s cute, but ineffective if you’re not arguing with a child.

    You see, constantly shifting points and topics in an attempt to keep the other person chasing your meandering dialogue of reasoning isn’t the same thing as having a cohesive, stalwart argument. If you had a real point to make, you’d make it, and stick to it. Your routine doesn’t work on adults because, once the “monkey-bar” routine is exposed for what it is, nobody buys it. In fact, now that you’ve been exposed, the only reason you could possibly have for keeping up the farce is that you’re desperately seeking attention.

    That only leaves me with more questions: why do you think this behavior (showing strangers how you desperately grasp at these straws) will make you happy? Is life really so terrible? You’ll find more satisfaction in a good book, my friend. Trying and failing to antagonize strangers with your ill-conceived, poorly executed troll shtick isn’t what a healthy, happy person does. That’s what very unhappy, empty people do. So why keep doing it? You’re not even adequately annoying anyone, anymore. All you’re doing is parading your personal misery and inadequacy for everyone to see. It can’t possibly make you proud, happy, or even content posting sloppy pictures from a camera phone to support one weak argument after another, over and over again.

    There’s zero chance of you convincing anyone that you have a coherent point to make because your assertions are too thin, patchy, and varied. Factor in how frequently you abandon your arguments, you’re routine is utterly unconvincing. It’s obvious. *You* are obvious. So why persist?

  41. Absolutely true. I had family stationed at Elmendorf for several years, and a couple newly-wed friends of mine just recently relocated to Anchorage. I get periodic updates from them about the political atmosphere, and I’m glad not ALL of the conservatives up North are like Amy Demboski. People vote on issues in Alaska, thankfully — not based on party. Last I heard, upwards of 30% of the electorate are declared independents.

  42. Instead of reading the article you suggested, I’m reading the actual text of the initiative from website of the group that has managed to collect 200,000 signatures, as that seams to be the front-runner. I’m looking very hard for something that could/would be construed as harmful to consumers or producers, but I haven’t seen anything.

    First, I was worried it might be a price-gouging oligopoly similar to the failed initiative from Ohio, last year. But it seams that the number of businesses is calculated to be 10% of the number of alcohol businesses, so I don’t see that being a prohibitively strangling provision, given the ubiquitous nature of alcohol businesses. The licensing of producers looks complex, but doesn’t restrict the number of growers to a select few.

    I’ve combed through the licensing and the ability of municipalities to vote to restrict whether or not cannabis businesses can exist there, but that’s akin to having a “dry” county — no fun for the residents, I agree. That could be an issue at the county level. Also, the fees to establish a business are $10k to $20k, but that could be significantly worse, so small businesses won’t be at a huge disadvantage. It’s not cheap, but not prohibitively expensive.

    Honestly, it looks like it may be the most tightly regulated scheme to pass in 2016 (if it does pass), but I wouldn’t expect a group able to gather 200,000 petition signatures to write a loose, half-measure. To pass in Arizona, the initiative likely needs those tight regulations to placate hesitant moderate voters and to preempt arguments from cannabis opponents. If the opponents are, in fact, stooping to use a rigged “push poll” to discourage advocates, I’d say the initiative is water-tight against any legitimate criticisms they could try to mount against legalization.

    I don’t know enough about Arizona’s medical program to judge, but I doubt the number of dispensaries is commensurate to the number of pharmacies. To give you my earnest opinion having read the whole initiative, I’d be happy if an initiative like this passed in my state. Sadly, my state doesn’t do ballot initiatives.

    If I did manage to miss the big problem with the initiative when I read through the text, then I do want to know what the problem is. But I don’t clearly see any built-in method for price gouging other than the overhead produced by the complex regulation scheme. It could be expensive for businesses, which would make it expensive for consumers, but the initiative allows for home cultivation and doesn’t require individuals cultivating for personal use to register or purchase a license.

    Again, if I missed the point, please tell me. But it doesn’t seem to be an oligopoly, it doesn’t seem prohibitively expensive to license or run a cannabis business, and it doesn’t forbid home cultivation. That’s got to be better than keeping responsible adult use criminal while intramural arguments between advocates over “the perfect” regulation scheme do the opposition’s work for them.

  43. tbh, Alaska has much more of a libertarian bends than Arizona. They elect a very different kind of Republican there.

  44. I have to disagree with you. I am originally from Oregon but moved to Arizona last year. Arizona has two legalization of marijuana initiatives that are poorly written. Both of these groups do not have the citizens best interest but are only in it for their own greed. People are afraid that if either of these initiatives pass they will be screwed all over again like the medical marijuana program that passed in 2010. I really recommend reading a article that was written by Brian Penny called “Arizonans are Priced Gouged on Medical Marijuana” for the full reality of the politics these so called Arizona marijuana activists are doing and have done. Another thing is if you even try to give them feedback or questions they tell you shut up just and vote for one of the initiatives. Yeah that looks real great and will definitely help the cause.

  45. And Alaska… What color were they in the last ten election cycles? Right… They’ve consistently voted for the Republican candidate in every election since 1968. And yet they also legalized cannabis for adult consumption in 2014 — a midterm election. Aren’t midterm elections infamous for low turnout from left-leaning voters?

    I suppose it’s nice that you are consistent with your “contribution” to the discussion, albeit completely unsupported by facts. At least you did us all the courtesy of not wallpapering the comment section with those camera-phone images of unpublished, citation-free charts.

    EDIT — The original comment claimed the Arizona initiative would fail because it’s a red state, but Skoolla decided to edit it after this reply posted. As for his assertion that initiatives always lose when the polls say they will, he hasn’t given a single ounce of evidence proving it. Not for recreational or medical cannabis legalization initiatives. Given how many initiatives have appeared on ballots since 1996, the burden of proof Skoolla has brought down upon himself is truly daunting. Best of luck looking up all that polling data!

  46. Told you so. Arizona has no chance. Soon there will be similar polls in Massachusetts, Maine, Michigan, Montana, California, Nevada and Florida showing the same thing. Prop 19 was leading in the polls, it lost. Half the time when polls show a marijuana referendum winning, it loses but when polls show it losing, it ALWAYS LOSES. Especially this early when the opposition has yet to campaign.

  47. I sincerely doubt the poll. First, I can’t find the actual poll data, anywhere. Every search I try takes me back to the same Arizona Republic story, which doesn’t link to the actual poll data. Without being able to examine the methodology of the poll, the exact wording of the questions, or the order in which the questions were asked, there is no way of establishing whether or not the poll was accurate or deliberately skewed. Second, this is the *only* poll showing the initiative failing. And third, the people responsible for commissioning, conducting, and publishing the poll all demonstrate clear political bias.

    A little background on the paper that published the poll, The Arizona Republic, shows that the paper consistently endorses conservative Presidential candidates (George W. Bush, John McCain, Mitt Romney). That, by itself, may not raise any alarms. But the organization that commissioned the poll — Arizonans for Responsible Drug Policy — is run by Seth Leibsohn (a right-wing pundit) and Yavapai County Attorney Sheila Polk (dubbed Arizona’s #1 cannabis opponent). The company they contracted to conduct the poll, Data Orbital, has only conducted two other polls — ever — and is run by former Arizona Republican Party staffer George Khalaf.

    Polls in conservative states (Georgia, especially) conducted on the behalf of conservative politicians and their pet media outlets are very cagey about poll details. For example, a poll concerning cannabis legalization in Georgia several years ago did its best to conceal the fact that only land-line telephones were polled, which of course skewed the poll’s sample towards older, socially conservative voters. In all likelihood, this poll in Arizona was just as unscrupulous, and is only meant to curb the enthusiasm of the initiative.

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