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Why We Oppose Newly Announced Legislation To Combine Cannabis Markets

165

Sensible Washington i502By Sensible Washington

On Tuesday, Senator Jeanne Kohl-Welles (D-Seattle) announced that she will be filing legislation this week to “align the currently unregulated medical marijuana system and that of the regulated recreational marijuana system”.

As part of this proposal, all current medical cannabis dispensaries would be shut down, patients would be able to apply for a tax-exemption waiver, and the number of licensees allowed under the recreational cannabis market would be increased. In addition, the measure would legalize the personal cultivation of up to six cannabis plants for everyone 21 and older, while simultaneously decreasing the amount of plants a patient can cultivate from fifteen, to six.

A similar proposal (though one that features quite a few differences), Senate Bill 5052, has already been filed in the Senate by Senator Ann Rivers (R-La Center), and has been assigned to the Senate Committee on Health Care.

Although we strongly support legalizing the personal cultivation of cannabis for adults, we are adamantly opposed to combining the medical cannabis market with the recreational market. We believe that this will increase prices, decrease access and ultimately put a heavy, unnecessary burden on patients.

Even with a change in the licensing structure, it would likely take years before the recreational cannabis market would be in a position to provide proper access for the entirety of patients in our state. Medical cannabis dispensaries operating throughout Washington should be reasonably regulated, and given the opportunity to be licensed under the state. It would be a regressive move to shut these locations down, giving them no opportunity to continue providing for their patients, simply to bolster the recreational cannabis industry.

We appreciate the approach of providing a tax-exemption for patients, but requiring them to receive a waiver is yet another unnecessary burden. Medical cannabis should be tax-free to qualifying patients under all circumstances. We also feel that there’s no legitimate reason to reduce the amount of cannabis a patient can cultivate.

Overall we remain opposed to any legislation that would make life more difficult for those with serious, debilitating conditions, as we believe this proposal would do.

We encourage those who agree with us to contact Senate Kohl-Welles (contact information can be found by clicking here) and urge her to support amending the proposal to no longer reduce the cultivation limit for patients, to no longer mandate the closure of all medical cannabis dispensaries and to no longer combine the medical cannabis system with the recreational cannabis system.

If you’re a resident of Washington it would also be prudent to contact your district’s senator (you can look up who that is here) to ask them to oppose these changes.

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165 Comments

  1. Sick of everything on

    Hey maybe he was wrong, can’t sue anyone for being wrong, stupid statement.

  2. Sick of everything on

    Totally disagree. Prices will have to be reasonable or the black market will fill in the space and what burden on patients? The only real difference is the CBD levels for different problems, that would be easy to deal with so yah just make it all legal to over 21 regardless of need or reason for obtaining the ganja. To many angles make more problems.

  3. You typed that entire screed with tears in your eyes and didn’t notice the word “apparently” ? Get a life.

  4. True dat…

    Would someone please explain to me why the med patients have to give up nine of their plants in order for rec users to have six?

    Why is it the government’s damn business what I grow on my own property, anyway?

  5. I missed his reference to apartheid at the beginning of the post, too. After that, the references to “colored” made sense.

    Acidsex: “It was an analogy, moron.”

    And then you wonder why nobody wants to play with you?

  6. Regardless of how David or anyone else characterizes you, the TRUTH of your nature should be evidenced in your writing. In other words, are you what he says you are? No? Okay, then just ignore him. I think it’s a waste of your time and ours to post long court decision cases, and sit back and say, “See how smart I am? I could sue if I wanted to.”

    Okay, then, sue him. In the meantime, don’t impugn the characters of those in the “stoner community.” How’s about a “class-action” libel suit, y’all?

    Besides, maybe David is right about you. You’re obviously unaware of the diversity of, among other things, the education level of the “stoner community,” which tells me you aren’t a part of it.

  7. The U.S. Supreme Court case in Milkovich v. Lorain Journal Co., 497 U.S. 1 (1990), established a benchmark for determining whether a statement is actionable in defamation.

    For a statement to be actionable in defamation, it must expressly or impliedly assert facts that are objectively verifiable. Milkovich, 497 U.S. at 19. This test supplants a former analysis that emphasized a distinction between statements of fact and statements of opinion.

    In Milkovich, the U.S. Supreme Court said that the First Amendment does not mandate an inquiry into whether a statement is opinion or fact, because the existing constitutional doctrine adequately secures freedom of expression without the need to create an artificial dichotomy between the two. Milkovich,497 U.S. at 19.

    Under the test set out in Milkovich, an opinion, like any other statement, can be actionable in defamation if it expressly or impliedly asserts facts that can be objectively verified. See Milkovich, 497 U.S. at 18-19

    For example, when a speaker says, “In my opinion, Jones is a liar,” she implies knowledge of facts that lead to the conclusion that Jones lied. Milkovich, 497 U.S. at 18. When the speaker states the facts on which she bases her opinion, and those facts are either incorrect or incomplete, or her assessment of them is erroneous, the statement may still imply a false assertion of fact. Id. at 18-19.

    Simply couching a statement in terms of opinion does not dispel this implication. Id. at 19.

    Thus, whether a statement is actionable in defamation does not depend on whether the statement can be categorized as opinion or fact, but on whether the statement can be categorized as fact or nonfact. Smolla, Law of Defamation §6:2 (2d ed. 1999 & Supp.2006).

  8. It’s easy to see why the stoner community is never taken seriously. Many of you do not have the simple understanding of law much less an adequate education. There are a number of cases for reference. Google is your friend.

    http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139872

    Just because you are on the internet doesn’t give someone the right to levy an accusation that is untrue or fits the narrative you have about them in your mind.

  9. Actually you wrong. David made a statement calling me a paid anti-dispensary troll. Statements like this are meant to impugn my integrity so that every one else immediately discredits any position I take. Since I am neither a public figure and that there is zero truth to his ridiculous accusation. Slander and libel cases are difficult to prove but not impossible especially considering 1) he has no proof and 2) it is not true.

    David is more than welcome to disagree and have his own opinions. I do not begrudge him that one bit. But just because one differs in opinions and perhaps even beliefs, does not give him the right to make such a inflammatory accusation against me, regardless of his self-justification or reasoning.

    You got the first part right, though. You certainly weren’t part of the conversation.

  10. One plant, one people, one law? NO.WAY. At least not until Washington comes clean and admits to it’s medical marijuana patients that it lied to us in order garner our votes which were needed in order for their legalization scheme to pass. .Now the state wants to shutter all medical dispensaries, or force them into edible and BHO outlets only. This is short-sighted and grossly unfair. They promised they would leave our medical marijuana law alone. Medical patients will return to the black-market as soon as they close the dispensaries. Colorado’s patients are doing the same. They aren’t buying in recreational stores either. The black-market is stronger in Colorado than it ever was prior to legalization. Leave our medical law alone. Boycott the 502’s..

  11. Really? It has to have been due to something impacting their bottom line. They don’t do anything to help anyone but themselves. I’d at tree bark before I’d shop at one of these retail abominations.

  12. I’m not really part of this conversation, but saying he could be “sued for such a statement” demonstrates how ridiculously naive and uninformed you are.

  13. That is a hefty accusation to make. I certainly have my assumptions about you but unlike you, I don’t levy accusations unless I have some proof to back it up. So what proof do you have that I am a paid anti-dispensary troll? You do realize you can be sued for such statements, right?

  14. Mi-Cree-Ni Quash-Mah on

    Okay RR see if you can project your mind around this. cannabis scheduled for public use as a vegetable sold in the grocery store. how YOU use it is your business, not institutions

  15. Mi-Cree-Ni Quash-Mah on

    well the institutions ‘THINK” dollar signs and criminal activity NOSCHOOL ZONES and collect everyone id…. (security)
    pot being such a dangerous vegetable and all don’t cha know?

  16. Taxes at point of sale to the consumer is the easiest on everyone. They already pay sales tax. Come to think of it sales tax should be enough.

    No more taxed or regulated than tomatoes.

  17. And that was the ONLY product available at that shop? Doubtful that was the least expensive option also doubtful that is the current average price NOW as compared to 6 months ago.

  18. Colorado’s patients have gone off the radar. They aren’t buying in dispensaries anylonger, nor growing their own. Somethings wrong The guess is they dislike the recreational system so much (the same they want to force on us) that many have simply stopped using cannabis altogether, moved to California and Washington (in the belief the unregulated dispensaries would last longer) or have gone back to using prescription drugs which are covered by many traditional insurance plans. So, no really no one’s got it right so far. And that’s a shame. I hope Oregon works out best. Time will tell. Colorado should know more about the reasons behind their medical sales drop-off soon. Thanks.

  19. Johnny Bloomington on

    To me Colorado did it right! You’re also right about the “greedy store owners” but that just illustrates how poorly Washington legalization has been rolled out.

    Colorado fixed this by having a strong medmj program in place. Then when recmj passed, the state help give the medmj dispensaries 6 months head start selling the herb before the greedies come to town…

  20. My Grandmother lived in Savannah Georgia many years ago. I used to visit her when I was a child. I remember well the restaurant sign’s, stepping off of street curb’s etc. I believe the issue of one’s race is never a proper analogy. Of course, It’s his right to make, and yours to defend. But why would you choose to do so?

  21. The problem as I see it Jacob, is that Washington’s attempt at recreational marijuana legalization under the states I-502 adult store system has already utterly failed. Rather than doing victory laps as some here are doing. It’s in truth time to accept reality, move forward quickly in order to not only save, but strengthen Washington’s medical marijuana laws and it’s medical dispensaries. What has occurred instead, has been an orchestrated, well-funded effort by well paid recreational lobbyist’s and lawyer’s, along with some store owner, attempts to pin this major political /economic failure directly at the doorstep of Washington’s medical marijuana law, it’s patients, and supporting dispensary system, (whether state regulated or not). To me, it’s analogous to a deer hunter, upon not finding any deer to kill in the forest , proceeds instead, to try and kill everything else, every other living breathing thing that he can find alive in the forest, merely as a recourse for his disappointment. Instinctual, perhaps but illogical just the same. The response to medical dispensary culpability has been so disproportionate to reality that it’s stunning. It’s not the sick or, where/how why they purchased their medicine. If 97%+ of Coloradoan’s are on it’s state registry system for ‘pain relief” I give them the benefit of the doubt. This states medical law is stricter than many here seem willing to believe. Plus, with respect, what difference does it make anyway except perhaps the tax hounds (I’m not anti-tax, as long as it’s applied proportionally). Therefore, the sick and dispensaries are not to blame, nor did they cause Washington’s retail wreck. They know wherein the blame lies. I helped my first dying cancer patient stay alive using cannabis in 1986. I would never consider it to be a ‘stop-gap measure” as Russ from Texas thinks Anyway, thank you for your response.

  22. Mi-Cree-Ni Quash-Mah on

    exactly and it makes you angry and paranoid so go get a card and lets get stoned okay?

  23. Mi-Cree-Ni Quash-Mah on

    this summer I drove through COLO stopped at a dispensary I did not buy I looked and ran……

  24. Colored/tainted? Like when a river is black and polluted? Maybe those are called hyperboles? Certainly its something you should have learned in HIGH SCHOOL ENGLISH OR SOONER.
    (IF I ADDED NIGGER TO THE END OF THIS, IT WOULD BE RACIST)

    Or said, “a colored-owned store”. Or niggery store.
    That could imply some reasonable doubt as to the opinions of race in regards to the poster who seems very legit to my slightly trained, slightly high eye.
    Racial insecurity is a sad thing and I wish it would pass. Fuck white supremacists too.

  25. Mi-Cree-Ni Quash-Mah on

    YOUR STATEMENT:When you tell one segment of the population that they get access to and the ability to grow a NATURAL PLANT while telling the others they either have to purchase from a state tax mafia/monopoly system or you arrest them and put them in jail, then you are right on that it is special treatment.’

    what is the statement made when you cannot physically access a building because of a disability in mobility yet does every building have disability access if it is public yes;

    so by the same understanding equal access would mean you have to give up your job stop driving approach becoming a recluse….. no public interaction especially with children, due to cannabis exposure and then you can have recreational but you must be required to experience paranoia first oh one more thing if you have children you will be watched more closely when the teachers find out you use DRUGS FOR PAIN.

  26. Mi-Cree-Ni Quash-Mah on

    In order for access to be equal you will have to become disabled, unless you don’t understand what your preaching.

    equal access like a ramp in front of the store or an automated door with extra hydraulics to lift your wheel chair equal access for all …. so if all you have to do is get up off you leather chair and drive down to the corner spending money from your comfy job…….. how is that equal access when it takes 75 % of a disabled persons assets to maintain their medication needs

  27. Mi-Cree-Ni Quash-Mah on

    we don’t wonder we know we experience it every day you are the problem we are the original thought

  28. Mi-Cree-Ni Quash-Mah on

    Yes I am just like the life of child comes before the life of a mother and the life of a mother comes before the life of a father and food is more important than shelter and on and on it’s one ship and yours is not sinking yet so get of ours while your still afloat pay for your masturbation practices like a good child.

  29. Mi-Cree-Ni Quash-Mah on

    David : A CID’s Ex is rattling empty air like the impotent 23 balding university student shouting at a notebook. medical cannabis and recreational will be in the same place at the same time with special marking and special price without a medical card you cannot buy medical simple…. care givers for those with mobility issues.

  30. Mi-Cree-Ni Quash-Mah on

    This is why you’re idiotic comment does not even register in reality anywhere………
    one the very first reason : cannabis shops require special security which is expensive to install.proximity to schools and in some areas other liquior stores
    two: since dispensaries have already been established (in Oregon) with this security in mind the recreational sales will fall under the medical facility location and management of the OLCC..simply because it will be cost effective ….Now where doe your stupid idea have any impact? all your shuffling around A CID’s Ex has brought you directly to the front door of the same facility and a tax label under a glass counter marked medical and recreational, you will pay for your attitude because the only good growers will be mom and pops back yard six plant wonders it is ours because we worked for it those of us that know the medicine know how stupid ignorant innocent folks get hooked on pot how they waste themselves in a dream and gradually become a stalactite. that is the one that hangs from the ceiling.
    right? okay recreational use of cannabis is unsafe.
    THINK ABOUT IT or are you to stoned already?
    people that want recreational should be introduced to extreme medical grade cannabis right from the start first time out of the box a 7 layer sativa compound rolled in a 2.5 gram cigar and be forced to smoke 7 of these everyday just to stay functionally calm. and when 6 months goes past like 6 days you will understand why people that use cannabis regularly don’t get high. they are high and calm and functional. so yeah just fuck yourself and get me some more papers before your get your hands all sweaty typing again.puffer

  31. To all on the Weedblog who may followed my verbal, and, at times, course, sparring with an apparently paid anti-dispensary troll today. Although I make no apology for defending medical patients from insult and verbal abuse; I do apologize for my language throughout. Thanks, Au revoir.

  32. Does it happen? Yes. Of course it does. But Washington State isn’t California, and MMJ here was never the de facto legalization it is there. Washington actually has a relative stringent list of qualifying conditions compared to other places, and it’s not particularly easy or cheap. I know several homeless people living on the street who are terminally ill and can’t get their authorization simply because they can’t pay for the doctors exam. That’s not the norm, either–but it also happens.

    Obviously, I clearly agree with a lot of the ideas here. But the tone needs to be less dismissive and less combative or it’s just going to turn a lot of the medical community off.

  33. Do you even live in Washington State? Have you ever even been in a Washington dispensary? Your reply clearly lacks a knowledge of the situation. Any proposal that would needlessy reduce patients’ rights should be automatically opposed by the cannabis community. Not to mention there will be thousands of jobs lost from the hundreds of dispensaries throughout Washington that would be closed from this bill, and it could be a LONG time before the recreational stores catch up.

  34. The bills have not been voted upon. In this legislative environment there is no reason to believe they will be either. People I know close to the legislature tell me they won’t do a thing until after 2016. Dipstick

  35. What difference does it make to you personally what I need or do not need, or where I obtain it? I help comfort sick dying patients. I visit them in hospital’s and hospice. I have done so for years. I care more about their comfort than yours. You should too.

  36. Well obviously you are obsessed with me. And obviously you don’t understand the debate because not all people are allowed to grow their plants now are they, David? That is what is pissing off the MMJ patients that in the name of fairness for all to grow, they lose 9 plants.

  37. Sean, in all fairness, can we agree that what Russ said has actually occurred? Perhaps it is not wide-spread but it does occur quite a bit. It’s not some urban myth. And what’s sad is that those people made it much harder for the real patients in need.

    We can’t stick our heads in the sand and ignore it. Many of the same excuses used to get a MMJ card in California are some of the same ones used to get a card in other states.

    I can’t speak for Russ but I took his post as a general way to explain how MMJ has evolved from the most serious in need getting it to the point that people with conditions nowhere near deemed detrimental were getting cards for far far less conditions. Which is true for some patients.

  38. Why do you care who buys what, where and from whom? And how does doing so have any impact on your own life ? If sick people have dispensaries and you have a rec. store and you’re allowed to grow your own plant’s ? Why obsess so over what other people do? Get a life.

  39. I disagree with you David, I think Russ is correct. It was a stop-measure and although that may be used against us in some states with no marijuana advancement. In places as advance as the great northwest, although still young – we should start to have this conversation. I live in Colorado and the difference between Adult use and Medical is insane – in terms of price and taxation. Not only do store price gouge adult use more readily, the tax is often 3-5 times that of medical. Therefore, if you consume more than 1 oz every 3 months; it’s worth it to get a medical marijuana card. Colorado has 97%+ people on the medical marijuana registry for “pain relieve”.

  40. God damn, are you really this stupid? Russ was making a fucking analogy that non-patient users have to go to the colored (rec) stores while MMJ patients are acting like they are the white stores. You are trying to treat recreational users and forcing them to drink from blacks only water fountains. If you are too stupid to understand his analogy then the last thing you should be doing is calling people Nazis, you dumbfuck.

  41. I like some of the ideas in this, actually, but the tone needs work. It’s accusatory and simultaneously demeaning. It implies massive wide-spread abuse of the system to the point where anybody using MMJ is suspected of simply wanting to smoke weed–“We watched then as “frailest” turned into any 19-year-old who can form a
    sentence for a “doctor” taking $45 a head in a tent at Hempfest to get
    their permission slip.”

    Well, not for nothing but I had to go to a damn doctors office and get a physical exam. They checked out my medical history, I designated a new primary care physician, etc. etc. I’ve never even been to Hempfest, my social anxiety won’t let me get close to that many people.

    You’re going to alienate so many of us with that tone that most of us will miss your ideas. I promise you that.

  42. Hey, comic books can be incredibly literary and intelligent. Watchmen….Preacher…Johnny the Homicidal Maniac…The Sandman. List goes on.

  43. Hey Dixie………..What exactly is a “colored marijuana shop” ? Please explain whether it Is, as it appears, a reference to a specific ethnic group. At least tell us whether it’s Alabamy or Mississippi where you live. Curious minds here in the Pacific Northwest want to know………………………………………….

  44. Then learn to temper your arrogance thinking the cannabis world revolves around you and your needs.

  45. You raise a great point about the different strains. However, I don’t think those strains will die off because many of the same strains are offered in both rec and MMJ stores provided we could somehow require all stores to stock those low THC strains as well as the more potent stuff.

    I truly enjoy discussing this with you and appreciate the respectful well thought out responses.

  46. LMFAO. That’s why as a certified educator who holds three Master degrees, I am able to debate with constant name calling.

    What’s even funnier is look at the points Russ made and they were some of the same ones I have made all day that just pisses you off. You are no longer special. The sooner you get over it, the happier you will be.

  47. Washington State has a very…specific marijuana culture. As it happens I’ve moved up here recently from flyover country and got my MMJ authorization about a year ago, so I have a very different view on a lot of the system than the people who were here fighting for it. One of those differences I’ve encountered is about growing your own. I don’t see any reason that growing your own marijuana should be a medicinal-only thing, although I will say that I do think that serious concentrates should be regulated and not made at home (like butane extraction and such, that’s an industrial process guys, stop doing it in your garage).

    Part of the issue I see is that medicinal and recreational consumers do have truly different needs. There are specific strains of marijuana that treat my migraines and strains that don’t. These migraine-treating strains will get you high, but so will weed that doesn’t. There are strains that treat my schizophrenia and strains that don’t. Some of these strains are of little to no interest to recreational users. You can *NOT* get high on X-Factor. You can’t do it. There’s barely any THC. But it *will* treat my schizophrenia symptoms like a charm, and if we straight combine the systems then strains like that will die off, because it won’t be in demand on the open market. It’s a medication, not a fun drug, and should be available as a medication to patients who need it. Not allowed to disappear because it doesn’t make a profit on the recreational market.

  48. Washington has no cards. Although dispensaries (as of now) accept patient authorizations mainly for their own and a patients protection. This, because, as known, Washington’s dispensaries are thus far, unregulated. California if it were to legalize in 2016 (my guess they won’t) would be facing these same issues that Washington is dealing with now. Just because these bills are submitted doesn’t mean they’ll be voted on nor passed. Washington’s legislator’s have punted this political hot potato on down the road several times already. It wouldn’t come as a surprise to me if they do so once again. Then, as before, nothing changes.

  49. Hey fuckhole, read this as many times as you need to so your pea brain can understand. I want equal access for ALL. Not me, not first, not anyone in particular. FOR ALL.

  50. No really it’s been working well here since 1998. Only when the regulation army rode into town and greedy store owners got their licenses, Instead of working with the medical cannabis community, they made a decision to attack them from day one. Only in America would greedy business owners ever consider the sickest people in their community competitor’s. Glad I’m off to Southern France until Spring. Thanks.

  51. In all fairness, I think part of my response was to you as well as to David and the post was somehow combined. And because the points were raised above in the thread, I assumed we were still covering all of the responses for that argument.

    Having said that, I agree with a lot of what you have to say. I think the problem why so many rec users are battling with the MMJ users is that MMJ users have a problem with rec users being able to grow their own because it comes at cost of the number of plants they are able to grow. Again, not saying it is all MMJ patients like yourself but look at David for example. Those MMJ patients that are pissed most likely would have no problem if the bill said rec users could grow 6 plants and they got to keep their 15.

    I am not sure if you read Russ’ lengthy post above but what he says makes a lot of sense and also covers some of the things you suggested.

    Sorry to hear about your finance. To me, pain is pain and should qualify regardless. One thing I suspect is that use of cannabis can be for preventative measures. How amazing (and pissed off) when we find out that routine cannabis use shows that it prevents some diseases from ever occurring and when we do see this result, we will wonder why we haven’t been using this all of the time to combat illness and diseases.

    So if I come across as an ass to you, I apologize. I should know better than to let morons like David and his Nazi name calling shit to bother me.

  52. It is utterly confusing to me that there is zero public growing allowed barring medical creation. This proposal is an affront to the idea that the medically needy should be allowed access to inexpensive medicine. Does the recreational populous deserve the right to grow? Without a doubt, but not at the expense of those who are in actual need of the medicine.
    Why are certain governments so damn greedy all of the time?

  53. I’m not asking you to justify your use. Go to the pot shop and buy all the weed you want for any reason or none. I don’t care. What I’m asking is, why should a woman buying a cannabis extract to treat her son be treated the same as a person buying weed for fun? Is the person eating four Vicodin at a party the same as a person eating four Vicodin with his leg in a cast? No, you don’t treat them the same and neither does the law.

    Why are you insisting that marijuana be treated different? If I’m using marijuana as a medicine, proscribed by a doctor to treat a condition, shouldn’t I be treated like a patient using a medicine and not like your ordinary citizen having fun?

  54. Patients can already grow 15 plants. No ones forcing them to do a thing, except fascists like you who want to force patients into party stores. Fuck you.

  55. I never said anything about patenting nature. I never said anything about preventing recreational access, or about growing my own. All your statements about that have nothing to do with anything I said to you. I didn’t make those arguments and I don’t support those arguments, as I made perfectly clear.

    Used vicodin as an example of how we as a society organize and control access to various chemicals based on medical need, not to discuss or debate patent laws (which are all about profit, and are blatantly messed up and badly applied not to mention biased towards corporations at the expense of the citizens). That asshole in California is exactly that–an asshole, and in California. Not me, and not a medical patient in Washington nor a dispensary in Washington (of which I know many who are deeply concerned about the effects all of this is going to have on the patients they serve, and not about themselves at all).

    I don’t think patients should be the only ones to benefit. I said that already. I also never mentioned growing your own, not a single time. As it happens I think recreational users and medicinal patients should *both* have access to the ability to grow their own marijuana.

    There are some things that I think need to be included as concessions to medical patients. I think current medical dispensaries should be held to the exact same standards as I-502 holds recreational shops, but I think medical dispensaries should have a legal pathway to becoming licensed medicinal shops that includes a length of time for them to bring themselves up to spec and a tax deduction allowing them to recoup the cost of doing so (better locks, thicker doors, more cameras, etc). This makes both compassionate sense and good business sense and good economic sense–the infrastructure, customer base, etc. are already in place, so let’s use it. It will speed up the process and ensure quick access to medication. We also need to increase the number of producers license’s to meet this demand, so the shops no longer have to use the underground or grey market. Do it smart this time–license the producers, then during the time we are waiting for the crop to come in let the dispensaries get a temporary license, then do all their upgrading then apply for a permanent license. Given them maybe one year total to do the upgrading, then if they aren’t finished close ’em down.

    I also think medical patients should not be charged the excise taxes–as explained above, the tax is equivalent to the “sin” tax on alcohol and tobacco, and I don’t think medical marijuana should be charged such a tax just like hospitals don’t pay alcohol tax on sterilization equipment.

    I do think that people who currently hold a MMJ authorization should have a pathway to transfer their authorization to a medical use permit, just like how people who had a chauffeurs license were able to transfer it to a CDL when that law was changed. Perhaps make it necessary to bring in a current medical record pursuant to the treatment of the condition claimed on the MMJ authorization or some other form of review, because as you said some people game the system.

    As for your disorder, there’s a simple answer–it’s not fair. The MMJ system needs an overhaul, not least of all because the qualifying conditions aspect is fucked. My fiance has Ehlers–Danlos syndrome, and that’s not a qualifying thing either. It should be, but it’s not. Problem is they medical side needs more science, to figure out exactly what it can treat and what it can’t. In the meantime it will continue to be patchwork and piecemeal. I’m sorry, that’s shitty for you. I’d fight for that to be a qualifying condition, if it came to a vote I’d vote for it. You should be a medical patient and it sucks that you’re not. I got *my* MMJ authorization based on migraines and arthritis–if you have the migraines commonly associated with Meniere’s then you should have an authorization.

  56. “This is exactly why I hope you and other patients get fucked royally hard in the end” Tell us again you’re NOT a NAZI !

  57. Yes. Don’t believe what the Nazi fuck below say’s he’s an idiot who’s only interested in his own shit. Fuck him

  58. No. I call out fascist’s for being the Nazi assholes who want to harm the sick and poor for their own benefit.

  59. Good Lord, dude. Do you not even understand sarcasm? Get ready for equality and learn to make those six plants stretch, bro.

  60. Why is it always the patients who fee they get to justify their usage but force non-patients to justify their usage? Neither are morally superior. The fact that you are asking non-patients to justify their reasons and morality for using baffles me but I am sure you justify your once a month use because its the “only” thing that works. It lessens your position when you take the position that your cause and reason is greater than someone else. Equality is what we should all be working towards.

  61. You have no idea who I am or what I can or cannot accomplish. You may be unpleasantly surprised. . Btw, I fucking hate people who prey on the sick and poor for profit for their own gain. I’m not against everyone growing I’m for helping the truly sick obtain medicine. But your fascist mind can’t get around that. It’s all about you fucking Nazi. Simple.

  62. When you tell one segment of the population that they get access to and the ability to grow a NATURAL PLANT while telling the others they either have to purchase from a state tax mafia/monopoly system or you arrest them and put them in jail, then you are right on that it is special treatment.

    And as long as you keep playing the name calling bullshit, no one will take any of your arguments seriously. The awesome thing about all of this is you can’t do a fucking thing to stop this bill. And if it does, you will have no choice but to be equal to all of the other “Nazis” who get to grow the same amount. :)

  63. Your views that the sick somehow get special treatment. That they need no more help than healthy people. You probably don’t know that Hitler whom you seem to admire if not emulate, had disabled and sick people executed along with 4 million + other Europeans. Read something. Is this all the you do all day? No wonder you’re fucked up in the head. But don’t try to take a moral high tone with your Nazi ass views. Just read something.

  64. This is easily one of the most brilliant things I have read, Russ. Thank you for putting it way more eloquently than I ever could have.

  65. No, uncivil would be for me to support no cultivation for patients and force them to buy from a dispensary. And all patients are consumers. You pay, you are a consumer. Last I look, no insurance companies are paying for your weed.

  66. Sorry buddy, you can’t patent nature. This is exactly why I hope you and other patients get fucked royally hard in the end because of the arrogance you have thinking you and other patients should be the ONLY ones with access to this plant.

    Your vicodin example would apply if vicodin grew naturally without the hand of man but it does not. So by your argument, you think patients should be the ones to benefit from nature.

    You still forget that based on the number of patients alone, many of these MMJ programs would not have passed without compassion and support from non-patients. I know many recreational users that supported every single MMJ measure they could not just because they were compassionate but also because it was the next logical step on the way to full legalization. But once many MMJ programs passed, we got the obligatory “fuck you, we got ours” and frankly, the recreational community felt used and unappreciated.

    Look no further than that asshole in California that is against legalization NOT because cannabis is medicinal but because he doesn’t want the competition in an open legal market.

    But by saying you should get to grow your own and I shouldn’t if it lowers the number of plants you get is directly violating my EQUAL rights. Under this current way, patients get to avoid paying taxes and grow their own (and I bet some grow way more than their plant count). Under the proposed method, everyone is equal regardless of health or if their illness is on some state’s list.

    I suffer from Meneires and sadly, I have yet to see one single state have that added to their list. Why is it fair for some conditions to addressed but not others? How do you solve it? Simply by leveling the playing field for everyone.

  67. You also have recreational stores, like Uncle Ike’s, who have signed their name to a letter that was sent to the Mayor of Seattle and the city council where they claim that concentrates are “the crack of weed” and that “15% THC should be the extreme upper limit”. Yet they still offer those products. Obviously this is just a money grabbing scheme.
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/250521804/MeinartLetter#scribd

  68. I’m sorry, but you’re wrong. The Bill of Rights actually applies on the side of disabled people. We already do things based on the Bill of Rights for disabled people that we don’t do otherwise–that’s what the Disabilities Act was all about. You don’t get to park in some parking spots, your tax dollars build special entrances, and your tax money also funds special programs that allow people like me to have an income at all.

    Medical Marijuana was originally created because people agreed that patients with serious medical conditions needed marijuana, and carved a special exemption in state law to let those patients have access. That’s literally the *ENTIRE* reason this debate is happening at all. This isn’t even mentioning the fact that medicine in America work’s exactly as you said–that is, patients have access to medicine because of medical need and non-patients don’t. When I get a tooth pulled, I get Vicodin; you don’t get to have Vicodin just because you want to have fun. The same applies to lots of other medications–in fact, the argument can be made that it is in fact the definition of a medicine in our modern world. Now this isn’t directly translatable, because marijuana is not like those medicines–it’s addictive profile, side effects, etc. aren’t the same. It does, however, show that in our country we do in fact provide certain rights and privileges based on medical need, including access to various substances.

    Are there people who abuse the system to get high? Yeah, of course their are. Washington’s MMJ program was never very well ran, to be perfectly honest. It’s better than California’s on that front, but not up to the standards set by a place like Colorado. But just because there are people who game the system doesn’t change the real need of the people who don’t.

    I’m not saying anything about violating your rights. I don’t want to prevent you having access to marijuana in any way. I don’t want to interfere with recreational at all. The only thing I am saying is that patients who have a clear medical need have different requirements from people who simply want recreational chemicals, and compassion and empathy should move us to make sure that these people have clear, cheap, and easy access to maintain a quality of life comparable to that of citizens who do not have these medical issues. I think that should include a lack of taxes–those taxes are basically comparable to the “sin” tax we have on alcohol and tobacco, and I don’t feel they should apply to people who are buying medicine that they need just as the alcohol tax doesn’t apply to pure alcohol purchased by hospitals for sterilization.

  69. No it shouldn’t. What don’t you get about the Bill of Rights? No one person’s rights or needs is important over another’s. No matter what the reason for usage, be it medical, recreational, or even preventative care. I am sorry people are sick but it does not mean they have more rights than those who are not sick. Using your theory, MMJ patients should be able to take priority over any and all medicine because of their “medical need”. And let’s be honest for a moment. There are a ton of MMJ patients who use it to get stoned just as there are those who genuinely need it. Everyone just winked and nodded while looking the other way.

    And no, your agony should not get precedence over my rights. But no one is taking away your rights in this bill. They are merely making it equal for all under the same umbrella.

  70. But…aren’t they? If somebody has AIDS and they use medical marijuana simply to treat the side effects of their medication, are they not morally superior and distinct from a recreational user who simply wants to get high? Are parents who give their child a cannabis extract to treat their seizures not distinct from a man buying bud to smoke at the Superbowl viewing?

    Please, explain your viewpoint to me. I want to know how you feel and how you are justifying these statements. I use medical marijuana to treat migraines, which I get once a month. Without marijuana, I am reduced to curling in the fetal position crying in a dark room. Marijuana is the *only* substance I have found that treats this pain, other than serious synthetic opiates. Is there no difference, in your mind, between my need for marijuana and that of the average person on the street who simply wishes to smoke it?

  71. Because their PATIENTS. They have a MEDICAL NEED for cannabis. A recreational consumer just wants to get stoned, he’s using it for fun, recreationally. If I don’t have cannabis, I am in blinding, screaming, sobbing, agonizing pain for four days out of the month. That’s my migraine, regular as Old Faithful, and cannabis is the only thing that works to treat it.

    Without cannabis, I’m in serious agony. Shouldn’t that have precedence over a desire to get fucked up? Isn’t medical need more important? Or kids with seizures. AIDS patients. People with cancer who need it to eat, because chemo makes them puke every five minutes.

    Aren’t all these needs more important than a simple desire to be high? Shouldn’t compassion and empathy dictate treating pain before just letting somebody have fun?

  72. I absolutely love this post. This is exactly why MMJ patients get backlash. I really wish you would have left up your post from earlier. It was easily one of the most intelligent things I have ever read.

  73. LMFAO. What exactly am I saying that makes me a Nazi? That I believe access should be equal for all?

  74. Johnny Bloomington on

    Lol, $65 a gram? BS! I don’t pay that in MO with black market prices and yes I’ve been to CO.

  75. I would say exactly the same to you, sans your fascist screed. Do you realize how much like a true Nazi you sound? You obviously don’t give a shit. But it’s as ugly sounding now as it was during the late 1930’s

  76. No, and you’re the uncivil one. Patients should be treated differently because they are sick? They are not consumers. Wnen they buy prescriptions thay have to buy them in the pharmacy department. This makes them different. You should spend sometime around the sick. Maybe you’d grow a heart.

  77. Why shouldn’t we say that to them when you are saying it to us? You are saying MMJ patients are special and deserve to not be hamstrung by the law and receive more benefit than others? But I guarantee you would be screaming if the law was reversed and the MMJ patients were severely impacted.

    So don’t act surprised when those you have said “fuck you” to respond in kind.

  78. And you wonder why some have less compassion for the MMJ patients. It is this very attitude and arrogance that because you are a MMJ patient and not some regular “stoner” that you are somehow moral and just in your usage while others aren’t. How is this any different than white and black water fountains?

  79. More than you obviously. Open a history book sometime, or Bing Germany, 1936-38. Sound familiar, Recognize anything? I’ll label you as a fascist because you so so proudly proclaim being one with you anti-patient, anti-disabled posts..

  80. Apparently you are incapable of debating civilly. Why should patients be treated better than regular consumers? What makes them so special? Would you prefer the bill be written so no one can cultivate?

  81. I know you are a moron that likes to throw labels on those who disagree with you. What else is there to know?

  82. It’s likely that when your card comes up for renewal you would submit the waiver form at the same time. No mention of having to pay an additional fee.

  83. Fuck them to sick people? I’m so glad I only share one-half of a nationality with dickheads that think as you do

  84. I could give a shit what people like you think. Because of what’s happening to medical all cannabis is doomed to litigation and injunctions in Washington. Those recreational consumers clammering for cannabis reschedulding. News Flash! The Americans with Disability act will close everything non-patient related everywhere if that were to happen (except on Indian land). So happy driving to a res for your cannabis dickhead

  85. Shame you didn’t get to read RadicalRuss’ position on it. He totally explained it way better than I ever could. But I am sure you could care less about fairness.

  86. So you are saying your disability makes your rights more important than someone who is not disabled?

  87. Mi-Cree-Ni Quash-Mah on

    yep me too every year first one was 375.00 secod was 200 next was 150 next 200 again and then SNAP jumped in a dropped the cost to 50 but I don’t qualify for SNAP this year so probably 200 again.a whole months social security if I didn;t have a janitorial job I would not be able to buy this license.
    some folks say well your a grower… right … I grow my medicine because I cannot afford to have anyone grow it for me. but cannot sell or give away that extra growth and without dispensaries I have no market but the street. and that is what masturbation artists like A CID’s EX want.
    what I want is a fair market for my extra with a stable location to deliver it to and set return values

  88. And there it is, that thinly-veiled disgust for the colored people… er, I mean, the recreational marijuana consumers. I really believe that’s at the heart of some medmj complainers – they have a special status of “whiteness” that protects them from being lumped in with the dirty, disgusting, hedonistic, selfish, libertine DRUG USERS. I didn’t smoke pot because I’m some stoner, I only used cannabis as a medicine, aren’t I special?

  89. Mi-Cree-Ni Quash-Mah on

    Johnny have you been to colo and visited their pot shops 65.00 per gram if you do not have colo license and when asked what the cost difference is that information is not available without a license.
    most of my family use several ounces per week. it is why we grow. this is a vegetable not a drug.
    drug are for drug users vegetables are for families

  90. No more marijuana apartheid. Quit forcing consumers without a doctor’s permission slip to shop at the colored marijuana shops.

    What medical marijuana supporters forget is that medical marijuana was a stop-gap measure, a way to get the sick and dying off the battlefield of the war between drugs. And we marijuana consumers of better health willingly sat in the back of the bus, supporting every medical marijuana law we could vote for, approving laws that allowed the frailest consumers to grow lots of marijuana and have their own unregulated tax-free marijuana storefronts, while we were still being arrested and given lifelong criminal records to the tune of about 5,000 per year.

    We watched then as “frailest” turned into any 19-year-old who can form a sentence for a “doctor” taking $45 a head in a tent at Hempfest to get their permission slip. Then we watched as finally, after fourteen years of winking and nudging at medical use, we got our shot at no longer being treated like criminals, only to see the “frailest” openly campaign to maintain our criminal status by opposing I-502.

    War’s over, folks. No marijuana consumers in Washington State faces arrest for their marijuana use. That permission slip from your doctor (which never did protect you from arrest, merely provided an affirmative defense once you got to court) is no longer necessary.

    Here we have a bill that would finally rectify the fact that 90% of marijuana consuming adults get to grow zero plants by increasing that to six, and the medical folks want to wail that they’re being reduced from fifteen to six. But folks, how the hell are the cops ever going to know you’re growing more than six? Back when 90% of us couldn’t grow, there existed a probable cause to get a warrant if there was any evidence of growing taking place – a seed, a stem, trips to the grow store, the smell of a fresh grow, etc. With this bill, those probable causes will not exist! (Besides, if the complaint is that a sick person might have to risk a felony to grow the amount of weed he needs, are you expecting that to garner sympathy from the rest of us who’ve risked felonies for growing a single plant?)

    As for the existing “dispensaries”, the culmination of a wink-and-nudge process that first was “one caregiver for one patient at a time” as the line of patients runs out the door of the dispensary, which then became “a collective garden” as the line of patients runs out the door of the dispensary, sorry, if there are going to be rules for commercial marijuana, they have to be consistent, otherwise we continue the winking-and-nudging as most marijuana consumers would much rather have their permission-slip-holding friend buy them tax-free marijuana at a convenient location than drive out of their way to a colored pot shop where the weed costs $20/gram.

    I’d amend this bill a little – I wouldn’t close the existing dispensaries; instead, keep them open and give them a pathway to getting their licenses and inspections necessary to be a legal I-502 shop. What’s the point of shutting them down if they’re only going to be allowed to open sometime again in the future? I like Kohl-Welles reducing taxes and setting them at the production level; creating a medical registry and having its card be a tax rebate at the point of sale seems fair to me. I’d even be OK with allowing for an exception system that allows certain patients to grow more than six plants.

    But the idea of preserving as much of the clusterfuck that is Washington’s medmj system is just untenable. Don’t blame recreational legalization for Washington’s patient woes – blame Washington patient activists who loved the wink-wink-nudge-nudge system and worked hard to push its envelope and blame the cowardly ex-Governor who line-vetoed the system that could have prevented all this hassle. One Plant, One People, One Law.

  91. Mi-Cree-Ni Quash-Mah on

    problem is Johnny there is a serious quantity ability for corporate growers compared to home grows in the back yard of 6 plants. possibly upwards of 60 pounds……corporate wants to remove the back yard so they have the only legal garden space synthetically indoor so they control the exorbitant costs of producing synthetic produce.

  92. Mi-Cree-Ni Quash-Mah on

    nope fuck you specifically NO POT for A CID’s EX
    oh you do have a disability oh okay your fucking sexually immature that’s why you want to masturbate with marijuana.

  93. Mi-Cree-Ni Quash-Mah on

    you are officially on my really stinky shit list you believe that fairness exists in the world and you are wrong there is no fairness where disability exists. it is not a equal access for any disabled person you want to play with yourself and we are just attempting to survive………….A CID’s EX

  94. So the idea is to close the operating shops and have new shops open up as recreational? So those old medical shops are just SOL for the business they’ve been running? I mean, even if they can apply to sell recreational, during the closure interim they would lose money. How do they know they’d be able to maintain their lease with the landlord during this time? Seems like a way to shut everybody down and hope few or none come back as recreational.

  95. So now that we have legalization for all, I would suggest you do work with those you oppose because it will be those very people you need to help you get what you think is fair. Personally, now that all can purchase legally and cultivate with this proposal, I really don’t see a need for MMJ program any longer.

  96. Also it’s nice to see you cherry pick the part of the sentence you did instead of addressing the sentence as a whole. By doing so, you give me the impression that MMJ patients are more important than fairness to all.

  97. Oh bullshit. No one said MMJ patients are hated and to throw the Nazi bullshit just shows how moronic you are. What is so wrong with all people being treated equally? You think because you are sick you should somehow be treated as if you are special?

    We don’t lack compassion for the ill or for MMJ patients. What we do have a problem with is this MMJ patients that act and think that they should be the exception to the rule while the rest of us have all of these rules put on us.

    And no one is asking you to work with anyone. What’s fair is fair. Sorry you don’t like it but this is the democracy you stupid Liberals crow about all of the time. MMJ patients are happy they got theirs but fuck the rest. So fuck them now!

  98. “Sorry for the MMJ patients”. It’s this tone. This utter lack of compassion shown toward sick persons that has turned many MMJ patients away from being recreational supporter’s. If people that hate medical patients and the ill would simply turn it down a notch, they wouldn’t sound so much like 1938 jack-booted Nazi’s and the two sides could possibly work together. I’m not working with fascist’s on anything.

  99. Johnny Bloomington on

    I thought about that after I made the comment. I had California and Colorado in mind. Having said that, it doesn’t seem like Washington had a great mmj program to begin with. This is one of the reasons why Washington has had a harder time with recreational where Colorado has a well ran mmj program and groundwork that made a smoother transition to recreational.

  100. Respectfully, just so you’re aware (as all state MMJ laws vary) In Washington, a medical marijuana patient list (a.k.a. as a patient registry) is not required under Washington’s 1998 mmj law, nor does one exist. The idea of throwing all current MMJ authorizations out ( without offering any opportunity for peer review) seems excessive and harsh, not to mention expensive for many very sick currently authorized medical patients. Thanks.

  101. Personally I think this is great news. Sorry for the MMJ patients but all citizens deserve a level playing field and a right to cultivate.

  102. Johnny Bloomington on

    If the tax exempt was automatic from the list of current mmj people, the mmj dispensaries were given an easier path to go recreational, and keep the current limit on mmj growers then i’d like this.

  103. There’s no auto-waiver for people who currently have a medical authorization. I’d have to go through the whole thing again. Hell, I’m on disability. I can’t afford all that. >.<

  104. Thanks for the post, Johnny. I also see no reason to shut down medical cannabis dispensaries, reduce cultivation limits, or combine medical and recreational systems. Here’s hoping this one get’s amended or thrown out, I’ll definitely be contacting her!

  105. Well you wanted “tax and regulate”. And the politicians are doing just that. Ah. You were hoping to get the taxes and regulations you favor? It doesn’t work that way. Everybody who dreams of government programs thinks of what it will be like in the absolute best case. What you really get is some one else’s rules and an army of enforcers.

    No more taxed or regulated than tomatoes.

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